r/science Oct 16 '21

COVID super-immunity: one of the pandemic’s great puzzles. People who have previously recovered from COVID-19 have a stronger immune response after being vaccinated than those who have never been infected. Scientists are trying to find out why. Medicine

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02795-x
5.8k Upvotes

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u/burningriverallstar Oct 16 '21

Does the same response happen to people who get covid after being vaccinated?

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u/ginny11 Oct 16 '21

In the article, it says the researchers are not sure and want to study this. I'd love to give my serum, as someone who was vaccinated and then got infected.

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u/answerguru Oct 16 '21

Same here. Vaccinated with 3 doses of Pfizer (due to questionable temperature handling of doses 1 and 2. However I had a strong immune reaction to the 2nd dose). I’m recovering from Covid now and it put me down for several days.

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u/Lachshmock Oct 16 '21

How has the Covid experience been for you? I'm double-vaxxed now but I'm almost certain I'll come in contact with it at some point due to my job, would like to see what I'm in for (obviously everyone's reaction is different).

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u/trynabelesswrong Oct 16 '21

I was double vaccinated with moderna, second dose in March, and I got Covid in the last couple weeks. I have no idea when exactly because my symptoms were nil. I had a runny nose for a week and a half and my mouth felt dry for one day but that was it. I have bad allergies and those exact symptoms happen not irregularly for me so I didn’t think much of it and pegged it on the season change. An event asked we test as a precaution and to my shock it came back positive.

Right now Im in grad school so that’s why there was the testing mandate, otherwise I’d never have known. It’s made it clear that Covid is probably way more prevalent right now than the headline figures would indicate. Our program of young people is 99% vaccinated and consistently having 2% of people catch Covid per week. Im 28, no health issues, regular exercise, good diet, etc. I had a strong reaction to the second moderna dose so I don’t think I have an under active immune system or anything.

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u/Lachshmock Oct 16 '21

I think you're probably right, I'm not sure where you're from but if testing numbers are low there's a good chance cases are much higher than reported. Glad to hear you escaped mostly unscathed and thanks for the reply!

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u/trynabelesswrong Oct 16 '21

For what’s it’s worth, I’m in Illinois and that 2% number is actual confirmed cases with an antigen test. They’ve been publishing the numbers weekly.

I had a super faint result on the antigen test. I got my shot earlier (second dose was first week of March) than others and never had Covid before so that could mean others having cases that are below the detection threshold. So it’s easy for me to imagine the real number being close to 4% a week. Hopefully means we’re headed quickly towards community transmission no longer being viable.

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u/DonaldChimp Oct 16 '21

I also had the Moderna shots. Your symptoms are exactly what I experienced. Runny nose and not even bad. I only got Tested because I was in contact with someone who had it.

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u/trynabelesswrong Oct 16 '21

Yeah my runny nose was not constantly runny all day, it would clear up by early afternoon pretty much and was completely managed blowing my nose every hour or so in the morning. If I was completely stuffed up I would have pegged that as being sick and gotten tested.

Throughout that week I was going to the gym, feeling fine. Wasn't winded, feeling muscle pain, snot build up in the mask, etc.

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u/lucymcgoosen Oct 16 '21

I'm slightly concerned that other than some tiredness from the first dose, I didn't have any side effects of the shots.

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u/OperationMobocracy Oct 16 '21

Yeah, I had a sore arm for an hour from the first Pfizer dose and that was the only side effect I had from either dose.

It’s like, is this thing on?

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u/spazm Oct 16 '21

Exactly the same for me, Pfizer as well.

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u/seerofsaturn Oct 16 '21

I’ll also chime in here since I’m vaxxed with Pfizer but currently recovering from COVID anyway..

I started showing symptoms Tuesday morning with an upset stomach but that was all.

Wednesday I had the same thing plus an irritating cough. It was Wednesday night that I couldn’t sleep at all and I woke up Thursday morning in a sweat with every muscle in my body feeling like I’d just gotten tossed out of a moving vehicle. Everything was achey to the touch and my mind was too foggy to work so I called in sick and slept the day away. I remember thinking it was the sickest I’d felt in a number of years.

Woke up Friday feeling basically recovered, in fact I felt well enough that I went for a short bike ride. Now it’s Saturday and I’ve just got some lingering nasal stuff like loss of taste and smell and I have a minor cough still.

If this is what it was like vaccinated I honestly can’t imagine how it would have been unvaccinated. It probably would’ve lasted much longer and felt even worse

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u/YeahDucks Oct 16 '21

Depends how long ago you were vaxxed

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u/pharmdeed Oct 16 '21

I was vaccinated with Moderna back in December/January. I tested positive Thursday the 7th after starting to feel generally crappy the evening before. Thursday morning I had one of the worst headaches I can remember along with fever and chills. Ibuprofen took the edge off, but I needed to take it consistently for the next 48 hours. The cough was no worse than a bad cold for me, although I did have some mild SOB on Friday. I started to feel a little better Saturday morning, but didn't really get my energy back until Monday.

Overall, it wasn't really that terrible, although losing my smell Sunday was kind of annoying. It's started to come back already so thats encouraging.

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u/Lachshmock Oct 16 '21

Thanks for the reply, and glad your symptoms weren't super severe! Especially after having your shots a decent while ago.

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u/cockknocker1 Oct 16 '21

I thought Ibuprophen was not recommened with Covid? Just take Tylenol?

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u/daxdotcom Oct 16 '21

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u/Alternative-Jello-42 Oct 16 '21

I can’t take any anti inflammatories due to suffering with stomach ulcers some years ago. I’m double jabbed but go into peoples homes for my job ( floor fitter ) even though I’m careful I’m sure I’ll catch it eventually. I think I should look into what I can take, just in case.

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u/albertscoot Oct 17 '21

You definitely should, the head congestion from covid was the worst I've ever had and it lasted for days until I took ibuprofen.

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u/cockknocker1 Oct 17 '21

cant keep up with all the changes...

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u/Lachshmock Oct 16 '21 edited Oct 16 '21

I've heard that Panadol / Paracetamol (Australia's version of Tylenol) is recommended for Covid infection over Ibuprofen, but I'm not a doctor so don't take my word for it!

EDIT: The comment above me has provided sources, look at them!

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u/rishank86 Oct 16 '21

This exchange between you folks above is the few genuine good reason for proper research and sharing online content for the well being of the community. Always a delight watching people help and advise in the right direction and not to forget people being humble enough to look at the recommended information and learn from it. Kudos all around

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u/endl0s Oct 16 '21

I'm vaccinated and was miserable for a week when I got it. Lost 16 pounds in a week. It's been 2 months since I had it and I still have a persistent dry cough that is driving me crazy.

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u/Loadingexperience Oct 16 '21 edited Oct 16 '21

Trust me for whole of my life I would have long lasting dry coughs even before pandemic. Until my ex-colleague shown me one tea that works wonders. It's called: Elecampane Dried Cut Root Loose Herb Tea - Inula Helenium

Latin name on the pack I have: Radix Inulae

In my country we have them in almost every pharmacy both as tea bags or loose. I've tried both but personally buying loose and boiling it in the pot worked better for me.

This tea tastes horrible but damn it works. I would boil it in the pot, drink it, leave the rest overnight, and mix it with 50/50 hot water the next day. In just few days your dry cough should soften considerably.

Also if you have a glass please pour it into glass. Once it gets cold the color of the tea is simply amazing!!

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u/goomyman Oct 17 '21

Gross tasting things always seem to be an Asian go to. This tea tastes gross - sell it as medcine!

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u/Quanderingchubbuck Oct 16 '21

I’ll throw my 29 and healthy experience out there. I had COVID a few weeks ago (~5 months after second dose of Pfizer). It started as a low grade fever for a week and felt like my reaction to the first vaccine dose: just kind of “off”. Symptoms rapidly got worse with respiratory symptoms and fever over the course of the first two days the second week, culminating in a 102 fever that put me down completely. I had to take the rest of the week off work. It was like bad influenza and common cold together with a few weird symptoms thrown in. I lost smell and taste totally for a week, and it’s still not really back to normal 2 weeks later. Some vertigo and associated nausea intermittently, lots of fatigue, temperature sensitivity/chills, and all manner of sinus issues and bad headaches. It took ~12 days after my last day of symptoms to be able to produce a negative test (yesterday morning). It was not a fun experience. 0/10 would not recommend. I very very fortunate to have gotten after being vaccinated at least.

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u/Lachshmock Oct 16 '21

Sounds terrible mate! Being young and fit shows it can kick just about anyone's ass, vaccinated or not. Best of luck with your recovery and thanks for the reply!

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u/Kholzie Oct 16 '21

I remember at the beginning of the pandemic, there were reports of olympian atheletes getting super sick. At which point i threw “young and healthy” as a defense out the window.

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u/Lachshmock Oct 16 '21

Yep! It's pretty concerning the severe symptoms that persist for even months after infection, for highly trained athletes especially they would be career-ending. This isn't just a disease for older folks, even though statistically they're hit worse.

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u/Quanderingchubbuck Oct 16 '21

I have a few coworkers who had the original strain, were vaccinated, and then still caught the Delta variant. It seems like (of course anecdotally with a sample size of 3 haha), their symptoms were less intense, so maybe there’s hope that as we all receive more boosters and/or subsequent exposures, eventually the immune response will be strong enough to reduce the threat to something less severe and more manageable? That’s the only way I can see us getting out of this thing unless there’s a major change in vaccination rates and distribution to countries with low/no vaccination currently. Definitely disheartening to go from “flatten the curve” to “this is just life now”.

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u/YeahDucks Oct 16 '21

Very rare cases though

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u/SquaremanJ Oct 17 '21

Imagine how it would’ve gone had you not been vaccinated! Glad to hear you’re ok. My family & I had it last thanksgiving & it was no picnic.

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u/answerguru Oct 16 '21

My shots were back in April-ish. Started feeling bad on Wed with flu like aches. I’ve had a mix for of aches, congestion, fever, and exhaustion for a few days now. Feels slightly less yesterday and today, but I don’t know if some of my fogginess is due to some cold meds (which I always have a problem with). Mostly taking ibuprofen / Tylenol for aches, but I think my fever has mostly subsided. No cough as of yet. It’s pretty rough considering I was vaxxed.

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u/Lachshmock Oct 16 '21

Had a rough go there mate, sorry to hear it. By fogginess do you mostly mean the sort of mental fog that a lot of symptomatic people get? And thanks for the reply!

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u/answerguru Oct 16 '21

Sure thing. This fogginess is the same thing I get whenever I take Benadryl, psuedafed, NyQuil, or even a low dose muscle relaxer. I’m particularly sensitive and don’t process those drugs very quickly.

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u/Rtmilburn Oct 16 '21 edited Oct 16 '21

Ya antihistamines do that, because of them being anticholinergics as well. Muscle relaxers are also very strong anticholinergic for the most part, some are mild, some aren't at all; however, the one I know that isn't anticholinergic is almost NEVER prescribed.

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u/answerguru Oct 16 '21

Thanks for that info! Some genetic component too - my Mom and I are pretty sensitive and take lower doses usually, but my Dad and sister need higher doses of things.

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u/evident_lee Oct 16 '21

I am just getting over covid now. Got the Pfizer vaccinations back in April. The day I started coming down with it I thought it was just my allergies acting up. Then I started having chills and then realized it was something more the next day lost my sense of smell 100%. That's when I went and got the test. Went through about a week of being more tired than usual but nothing too bad.

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u/stickyt57 Oct 16 '21

I had covid before getting vaccinated, was sick for 1 day

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u/MamaBirdJay Oct 16 '21

I got Covid after dose 1, but just before dose 2. Just got my booster and had a much worse reaction than the other doses. I guess that means my immune system is ready. Just try me, Punk!

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u/Azhz96 Oct 16 '21

When I got covid I barely had symptoms, only tired and very mild fever for two days but tested positive.

When I later took my first dose I didnt get any symptoms, so I thought its probably because I've already had covid before. However the second dose made me so damn sick that I got worried, the constant headache made it impossible to sleep without waking up every hour, had high fever and extremely tired.

It all hit me instantly on the evening out of nowhere too, no painkiller helped either except reduced the fever a bit. Its great not to worry about it now tho, I cant imagine what could happen if I got other variant if my body reacted like that even with antibodies.

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u/the_YellowRanger Oct 16 '21

I'm on day 3 of my breakthrough case and i wanna die

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u/whitlingerdoodledo Oct 16 '21

I got infected, vaccinated, then infected again so I must have the platinum tier of antibodies by now

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u/lucky420 Oct 16 '21

I was exposed last Wednesday morning. I got my booster that same Wednesday afternoon, I tested positive this week

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u/Rickandmortysquanch Oct 16 '21

Give em your serum huh...insert silly face here

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u/brberg Oct 16 '21 edited Oct 17 '21

This is highly speculative, but I would guess not. When you get a bad case of COVID-19, your immune system is exposed to a huge dose of the virus over the course of a week or more. This likely results in higher levels and diversity of antibodies and memory cells than you would get from the more mild infection you get when you're exposed after vaccination.

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u/LetMeGuessYourAlts Oct 16 '21

researchers started noticing unique properties of the vaccine responses of people who had previously caught and recovered from COVID-19. “We saw that the antibodies come up to these astronomical levels that outpace what you get from two doses of vaccine alone,”

To my untrained eye, it would make sense that three exposures provoking an immune system response (Covid, first shot, second shot) would provide higher immunity than two exposures (first shot, second shot). It would be interesting to know if the order matters. Would (first shot, second shot, breakthrough Covid) provide the same level of immunity? And how would that compare to (first shot, second shot, booster)?

I'm sure some of these questions will be answered as we work through trials on the boosters and have more information on breakthrough Covid cases following the two-shot regiment. I bet the particular brand will end up mattering as well.

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u/purduephotog Oct 16 '21

It'll be interesting to see where the research goes.

The vaccine targets the spike protein so the body is trained to recognize and attack that.

However the body can make antibodies to any part of the COVID structure (as well as), so an infection could be 'doubly recognized' and attacked. You've already got the first three layers of infection recognition screaming...

Now which will be the most important long term? Depends if the spike protein is what drives all infection rates.

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u/siecin Oct 16 '21

I remember reading something on here a month or two ago on here about the people who got SARS and the vaccine were pretty much completely immune. I'll see if I can find it.

Does this also mean we can use the J&J shot then the mRNA shots and get the same result?

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u/RebelScientist Oct 16 '21

There is some preliminary data that shows that mixing some vaccines can provide better protection than getting two shots of the same vaccine.

https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/mixing-covid-19-booster-shots-safe-says-nih-study-2021-10-13/

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u/AusCan531 Oct 16 '21

This is the big question for me. I'd much rather get Hybrid Immunity be being double vaxxed then getting a breakthrough infection than risk full-on Covjd followed by vaccination after that.

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u/piesR Oct 17 '21

A friend of mine is part of a mixed vaccine trial to see if the body handles covid exposure better if they have received different vaccinations as the body is exposed in different ways. From memory: She got her 2 Pfizers and in a few months will get 2 moderna shots and then they'll expose her to covid to record the immune response.

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u/[deleted] Oct 16 '21

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u/AnalThermometer Oct 16 '21

Yeah I've read speculation the reason is because natural immunity helps the body identify all of the 27~ proteins on the surface not just the spike

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u/collectinscreamshots Oct 16 '21

In predictive modeling, an ensemble or average of several different models almost always beats single models because each individual model has strengths that accommodate missing features in the other models.

Same thing here, being exposed to the virus (and probably each different strain) can induce a different immune response than the vaccines. Add them together and voila!

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u/AllhailtheAI Oct 16 '21

Right? So... This is not surprising at all actually? In fact it is expected?

Or am I missing something?

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u/anally_ExpressUrself Oct 16 '21

I think you're right, but the headline needs a healthy dose of clickbait to bring you here.

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u/ObscureAcronym Oct 16 '21

Top 10 spike protein antigen epitopes triggering immune response.

You won't believe number 7.

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u/Alberiman Oct 16 '21

the way the body develops an immune response is also kind of chaotic too, people think it's a simple 1-1 of the body sees a virus and immediately produces an antibody that works but it's more like it gets a vague idea and blindly throws darts at the wall. So with responding to living covid there's ample opportunity to produce a lot more darts to throw at walls

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u/Jetberry Oct 16 '21

I heard covid has 28 proteins? And natural infection causes the body to recognize more than just the spike protein. (Not that is go out in search of getting covid, it’s too risky)

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u/Azertys Oct 16 '21

Not everyone have been vaccinated with an ARN vaccine

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u/Kholzie Oct 16 '21

(RNA for english speakers)

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u/Doc_Lewis Oct 16 '21

Probably has to do with "dosage". 2 doses of vaccine that stick around for less than 48 hours surely are outmatched by a virus which replicates and stays in your body for days to weeks. Stronger immune response to stronger challenge.

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u/GreenNukE Oct 16 '21

Is there any difference in immune response between people who had asymptomatic COVID19 (detected through PCR) versus symptomatic cases?

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u/bakemecake Oct 16 '21

I got covid in March of 2020 (did not get tested, but lost my sense of taste and smell for 6 months, so…). Back in April of 2021, I got my first Pfizer jab. About 2 weeks later I traveled to Israel and got a serological test. The results were in unspecified “units”. My friend who had just recovered from covid + got first Pfizer had 4,000. My mom who got the j&j a month prior had 600. And I had >40,000. We still don’t know what those units are, but I was released from the 2 week mandatory quarantine because of it. I wonder if it’s relevant to this?

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u/jasonwinters Oct 16 '21

Isn't this how all viruses work though?

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u/mouse_8b Oct 16 '21

I think the important part here is the combination of acquired immunity through infection and an mRNA vaccine. I'm not a doctor, but I imagine traditional vaccines are more like getting immunity through natural infection. The immune system has the whole virus to identify. Since there is a bit of randomness to antibody production, each person's immune system may end up making antibodies for slightly different parts of the virus.

mRNA vaccines only deliver 1 protein, so the immune system will only be primed to recognize one part of the virus. The scientists and doctors who designed these mRNA vaccines chose an important target, so the mRNA vaccines are highly effective.

What I imagine is happening is that those who battled an actual infection have a slightly different set of antibodies that may match to different parts of the virus. Then they get the vaccine and generate an antibody for the spike protein. The end result is they have multiple antibodies for covid, which helps when fighting new mutant strains.

For this reason, I personally suspect that the order matters. Natural infection and then vaccination gets super immunity, but not the other way around. I suspect that a vaccinated person's immune system will just use their spike protein antibodies without putting much effort into making new antibodies.

This is all speculation. I've got some bio background and this is what makes sense to me.

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u/capeandacamera Oct 17 '21

Hybrid immunity works with other vaccines that use the spike protein too, not just the mRNA one- like Astra Zeneca, Sputnik and J&J. Same point you make about antibodies to additional parts of the virus applies.

Aside from types of antibody, there is another obvious factor not mentioned in this article- location! Infection primes your respiratory system for attack which is the most useful place Inhaled vaccines are being trialled and it makes so much intuitive sense, that I wonder why they weren't done first.

It'll be hard to make a fair comparison of the strength of hybrid immunity from infections before and after vaccination:

The people with the worst immune systems overall are a) self selected out of the infection first group by dieing before being vaccinated if infected b) self selected into the vaccine first group by being the ones most likely to have a breakthrough infection and get included

So even if the protection was identical you'd expect it to look worse for vaccine then infection.

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u/Boring_Ad_3065 Oct 16 '21

Probably depends on how severe the post vaccinated infection is. If your body clears it quick with few symptoms the vaccine clearly worked well and you still had a strong immune response. If you’re feeling pretty crappy for 3-4 days and don’t feel 100% for a few days before/after that… I’m guessing you’d have some other antibodies built up.

Other factor as pointed out is that the 2nd dose is designed to spike the response of the 1st dose. Having Covid before likely means you have at least some antibodies targeting that spike protein, so first dose is acting like 2nd, and 2nd like 3rd booster.

In the case of getting infected again, I’d think that’d act at least like a booster even if you cleared it quickly. After all the immune system still had to produce a ton of antibodies, which should reinforce memory cells and extend the temporary boost of active antibodies.

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u/FailOsprey Oct 16 '21

Immunity to proteins other than the spike protein combined with an extreme recognition of the spike protein found in the vaccine?

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u/Cryptokeeper001 Oct 17 '21 edited Oct 17 '21

Had covid before the vaccine and it was like a basic cold but no taste at all or smell. It was weird. My wife too. Lasted 3wks? Both 35 and healthy. Just slept a lot. Curious why it effects some people so severely and others barely at all. My neighbor is 300lbs ,5’6 and drinks like a fish. Anti vaxxer and beat covid without any troubles yet my wife’s good friend just died 2 wks ago.

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u/yourmomma77 Oct 17 '21

There has to be something genetic going on. That and maybe the infecting viral load? I’ve wondered why it seems so random, it decimates some families.

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u/CamLwalk Oct 16 '21

I'm a nurse that works in a nursing home. We had dozens of cases last year. (Lost 15 residents and 2 staff sadly). Despite being vigilant with PPE, I suffered full blown covid in November and fully recovered. I got Vax #1 in January and Vax #2 in February. This week I got the booster. I reckon I'm just 250 lbs of antibodies at this point.

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u/Quelcris_Falconer13 Oct 16 '21

Double antibodies? The ones they naturally made and the ones they got from the vaccine?

Also as someone who has had Covid then got vaccinated later on, I am greatly relieved to read this

(Yes I know that’s not exactly how vaccines work but I’m paraphrasing here)

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u/form_an_opinion Oct 16 '21

Could it be because the body ends up developing two ways to defend against the virus? If our bodies are truly made up of all these individual bits, I could entirely see it being possible that the "vaccine regiment" of sickness fighting cells probably receive slightly different training than the "natural response regiment" and maybe both regiments are sent into battle when an invasion is detected, resulting in a stronger and more effective response?

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u/LacusCalculus Oct 16 '21

I had COVID in early 2020, vaccinated with first dose May 2021, and caught COVID again in between my vaccination doses. I wonder if I have a super immunity at this point.

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u/lucidsomniac Oct 16 '21

What were your symptoms like the second time you got it? Same, milder or worse?

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u/PDubsinTF-NEW PhD | Exercise Physiology | Sport and Exercise Medicine Oct 16 '21 edited Oct 16 '21

It’s important to understand the breadth of the statement. Some patients have almost a “supraphysiological” response but there are also patients that do not have an adequate response after recovery or their infection protection is fleeting. Vaccine generates a more predictable and consistent response.

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u/[deleted] Oct 16 '21

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u/PDubsinTF-NEW PhD | Exercise Physiology | Sport and Exercise Medicine Oct 16 '21

Not old news. Provide “many studies” please

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u/siecin Oct 16 '21

That's not true at all...

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u/auralvance Oct 16 '21

I wonder if this has been seen and studied with other viruses and vaccines, although I can't think of many vaccines out there people still get after they have already been infected once, other than seasonal flu. Not sure how much this applies to HPV, shingles, hepatitis, etc.

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u/queensamosa Oct 16 '21

Oufff, shingles. Had those in my early 20’s, I do not wish that on my enemies it hurt so bad. Please get vaccinated against shingles when you can.

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u/bechdel-sauce Oct 16 '21

You can only get it in the UK if you're over 70. OVER 70. I had chicken pox 3 times, I'd be amazed if shingles doesn't show up sometime.

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u/auralvance Oct 16 '21 edited Oct 16 '21

I'd love to get the vaccine now but insurance won't cover it until 50. I was thinking of just paying for it if they won't since it's around $300 for the two dose regiment and I have no problem affording it. I had chickenpox as a kid (before the vaccine existed) and it's in my system, so I'd prefer to not have to go through that. A friend had it a few years ago while pregnant and she was miserable. Planning on talking to my doctor about it and see if there are any downsides. I don't mind if I have to get it again later on.

Edit: CDC says the shingles vaccine offers good protection for five years, so I'm going to look into it.

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u/nursejackieoface Oct 16 '21

If you can afford it it's worth it. I have no insurance so I went to the county health department and got the first shot for $21. My wife has Medicare plus a supplemental plan and still paid $158 for one shingles shot.

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u/silk_mitts_top_titts Oct 16 '21

I had it 2 years ago. Before that I thought it was just a skin rash or something. I didn't know it hurt that bad. It felt like the worst flu and the worst sunburn I've ever had st the same time. Also picking up medication that is usually prescribed for herpes at a pharmacy where my ex girlfriend works was suuuuper fun and not humiliating at all.

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u/BeefsteakTomato Oct 16 '21

shingles/chicken pox is herpes zoster

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u/[deleted] Oct 16 '21

They left ‘Common Sense’ off the reference list

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u/TheFuture2001 Oct 16 '21

I am immunocompromised.

Covid + J&J + Moderna booster gave me insane antibody levels.

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u/lektorjuel Oct 16 '21

Why are people surprised by standard medicine and molecular biology when covid is involved? I mean, it would be ok for someone non-trained to ask, but a study? By scientists? And shock expressed by science writers?

It's like we suddenly have to rediscover immunology basics (just like pandemic response for some reason needed to be reinvented when covid hit - all standard guidelines and basic knowledge thrown out, and global measures put in place in a social media fueled panic). It could be comedic if it wasn't serious.

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u/skotzman Oct 16 '21

I am not educated enough to comment on this platform, I enjoy gleaning some knowledge from it though. That being said, it seems to be a target for trolling and purposeful misinformation lately...

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u/[deleted] Oct 16 '21 Take My Energy

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u/Aidlin87 Oct 16 '21

Some people on parenting subs get really defensive if you say anything about covid having a low risk in young children. There’s some militancy there that I don’t understand. I’m glad covid poses a low risk to children…I don’t want it to be high.

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u/hangoverDOTTED Oct 16 '21

I highly doubt your claim on context.

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u/[deleted] Oct 16 '21

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u/hangoverDOTTED Oct 16 '21

The lack of seeing people claim that covid is especially dangerous for kids. That just doesn't pass the sniff test.

And no one gets banned for linking to the CDC. Typically, it's for posting misinformation and trying to use something from the CDC erroneously to say something the CDC doesn't actually say.

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u/M_Mich Oct 16 '21

you two could test his hypothesis. have him send you the cdc link and then you post it and see if you get moderated.

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u/hangoverDOTTED Oct 16 '21

True. Or he could provide a link to the post or series of posts that got him banned from the currently unnamed subreddit.

He is a little light on details to his claim currently.

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u/fluffedpillows Oct 16 '21

Is this really puzzling..? It seems like a complete “duh” to me and I’m a total layman

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u/ZincMan Oct 16 '21

It’s a puzzle the same way have two smoke detectors doesn’t make you safer. More doesn’t almost mean “more effective”. Which means they are offering different types of protection possibly

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u/SRV1981 Oct 16 '21

Takeaway: get the vaccine

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u/Lynzh Oct 16 '21

Does it not depend on the longevity of those antibodies? How many booster shots are you gonna need, one every year? every 6 months?

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u/SRV1981 Oct 16 '21

What do the people who’ve dedicated their college loans, their careers, long flights to Asia to study bats, the people who sit in labs for 60+ hours a week say? What the consensus is among them will dictate my behavior.

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u/frostybawls Oct 16 '21

Curious how things are for those of us who got Covid months after being fully vaccinated. Are we “super” now? I feel pretty super

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u/analon Oct 16 '21

Yeah ive got hybrid immunity!

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u/Grippersmith Oct 16 '21

If you wanna scream, scream with me....

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u/NotBearhound Oct 16 '21

First dose of my vaccine, didnt even notice. Caught covid several weeks later and barely noticed it. Second vaccine dose BULLDOZED me.

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u/FranticAudi Oct 16 '21

Covid last year near the beginning. No symptoms, Moderna dose 1 and 2, no symptoms.

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u/errorseven Oct 16 '21

Got covid in January 2020, got vaccinated with Moderna a few months ago, took a week but the response at the injection site was swollen to the size of baseball... the second shot, it swelled up on the first day. I'd say my immune response was appropriate, but I was concerned that it took a week for any effect the first time.

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u/SpaceCase206 Oct 16 '21

Super immune. I like to hear that word about myself.

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u/dbzmah Oct 16 '21

It certainly felt that way when I got vaccinated. Hit me like a truck.

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u/IfanBifanKick Oct 16 '21

I had Covid in march 2020. I was sick for a week after my first jab, and two weeks + after my second. I had my booster 1.5 weeks ago and I still feel like garbage.

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u/Rodgertheshrubber Oct 16 '21

Maybe because the immune system is now able to have a composite image of the bad guy?

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u/ASilver76 Oct 16 '21

This really isn't all that complicated. A sensitized immune system reacts more effectively to subsequent incursions of infectious agonists.

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u/AlbinoWino11 Oct 16 '21

What about super duper immunity? Covid, shot 1, shot 2, breakthrough. And then maybe booster. Bulletproof.

2

u/izqy Oct 16 '21

What about being vaccinated first then getting covid? Would the immunity be as strong as getting COVID then the vaccine?

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u/MasaBoss Oct 16 '21

Can somebody explain this to me please? I don’t understand the headline

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u/Harmonic_Flatulence Oct 17 '21

If you happened to get COVID and then you get vaxxed, your immune response is much better than someone who simply got vaxxed.

Is seems previous exposure and the vaccine work really well together. So well, that scientists are trying to figure out why.

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u/DickCheney666 Oct 16 '21

Is this a good thing? Isn't the whole cytokine issue about people's immune systems basically going into overdrive and killing them? Also all the inflammation and auto-immune conditions that are being triggered by overactive immune systems?

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u/yangsta05 Oct 17 '21

Damn. I’m considered a gold standard! 🥲

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u/doorbell19 Oct 17 '21

16x the detail

It just works

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u/ScoundrelPrince Oct 16 '21 Silver

"The immune system is working and we can't figure out why!"

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u/[deleted] Oct 16 '21

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u/hangoverDOTTED Oct 16 '21

Now I wonder what your power level is if you get covid (saiyan almost dying) and like all nine or so vaccines from around the world (collecting the dragonballs).

Will it grant you immortality?

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u/Syntherios Oct 16 '21

You see Frieza, you're not dealing with the average COVID survivor anymore...

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u/Battlepuppy Oct 16 '21

So, I was vaccinated then got a light case of covid. If I now get a booster, can I then walk through valley of death and fear no evil?

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u/IvysH4rleyQ Oct 16 '21

That’s not quite how it works.

That said, we’re now looking at possible anti-virals for COVID, similar to Tamiflu.

The thing is to test positive early so you can treat early, or it doesn’t work. The likelihood of this thing going away isn’t good - it’ll become like flu, is what the experts think. New and yearly vaccines will come out, we’ll have antivirals, etc.

The issue is that currently, we don’t have enough reliable rapid tests (because the “it takes a week to get a result” tests are BS) or EUA cleared antivirals (similar to Tamiflu but for COVID).

Once we have a reliable antiviral + widely available and reliable rapid tests… things will get significantly better.

However, the wealthier countries still have a duty to provide to the poorer ones or things will continue to go down the drain.

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u/M_Mich Oct 16 '21

agreed. without a global solution it’ll stay a global pandemic and a new version that resists the vaccine and the antivirals will surface and we’ll all be locked down again

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u/PierrePants Oct 16 '21

Its called natural immunity. Evolution.

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u/Mephalor Oct 16 '21

Ummm this is not a mystery. It’s exactly why we make vaccines.

It’s just the situation in reverse. The body has already seen something very similar, it is recognized as not self and the antibody factory is thrown into high gear.

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u/supagirl277 Oct 16 '21

I don’t think that’s a hard question to figure out

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u/floatable_shark Oct 16 '21

I mean isn't that common sense?

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u/Luebkurt Oct 16 '21

Interesting. I've had covid (11/2020) and recovered from it. I have the antibodies according to recent bloodwork (10/2021). My immune system did it's job. There is no reason to get the vaccine from my perspective.

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u/yourmomma77 Oct 17 '21

I guess my question is why not get it? It won’t hurt you, it’s free and if nothing else it will make you Superman/woman. I have family who’ve gotten it multiple times so I think some of this certainty about reinfection will end up in the same pile w/ certainty the vax prevents all infection.

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u/Luebkurt Oct 17 '21

I've already answered that question. My body has naturally produced all the protection it needs.

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u/Go_Big Oct 16 '21

You’ll still have to get 2 doses of vaccine if you want to keep your job though.

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u/Luebkurt Oct 16 '21

No I don't . Any company forcing this crap on people isn't worth working for anyway. Simple as that. "Great Resignation"

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u/Oye_Beltalowda Oct 17 '21

Isn't happening.

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u/Harmonic_Flatulence Oct 17 '21

There is no reason to get the vaccine from my perspective.

THIS ARTICLE seem like a good reason to get the vaccine.

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u/Jetberry Oct 16 '21

But super immunity would be better than just natural immunity, no? We don’t know what might be coming down the pipeline variant wise, so it might be better to be safe, than sorry?

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u/NeedsSomeSnare Oct 17 '21

Have a look through their reply history. They're a typical antimask antivax type. They don't care about the science behind it; only about their 'freedoms'.

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u/Yahkin Oct 16 '21

We could all wear helmets and burn suits while driving our cars too as that would offer more protection in an accident. Every decision is a cost benefit analysis.

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u/Oye_Beltalowda Oct 17 '21

Okay... Did you actually do the analysis? What's the cost to getting a vaccine?

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u/hammersandhammers Oct 16 '21

Except for the dead ones

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u/GBR2019 Oct 16 '21

what is this nonsense? those who have had covidla, they do not need vaccination, they have the strongest immunity.

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u/Harmonic_Flatulence Oct 17 '21

Well, this article would indicate that that is not the case. Natural exposure combine with vaccine exposure creates an even stronger response, to other species of coronavirus as well.

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u/Themathew Oct 16 '21

Maybe, but why not get a booster, they are free.

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u/GBR2019 Oct 16 '21

no one really understands how a person works, no one understands how immunity works, no one knows how to grow even a small part of a person's body, be it skin or bone, I generally keep quiet about more complex elements.

so why you need to interfere with the most complex bio mechanism when you are healthy, or you know for sure that your body has already met a virus (this is indicated by an antibody test, even if there is a very small amount of antibodies, this means that immunity is very familiar with the virus)

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u/BeNice_777 Oct 16 '21

This result seems heavily spun to sell vaccines. Most likely what they are seeing is normal immunity post infection (multi-hapten, multi-clonal) reacting to the mRNA mediated spike protein hapten as an invader. ie. the vaccine isn't priming the immune response it is triggering a mature response that was already built up by infection and recovery.

I'd ask...

- what is the strength of immune response in a previously infected/recovered/NOT vax'ed covid patient when they are simply re-infected with covid?

- what is the strength of immune response in a vax'ed/NOT previously infected patient when they are infected with covid.

What this article is really saying is that there is no need to vaccinate previously infected/recovered patients as they are already producing a mature immune response.

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u/cjc323 Oct 16 '21

The truty here. However the gamble is really whether ir not you end up in the hospital. Studies are for sure shwong that if you haven't gotten it yet, being vaxxed significantly helps with that.

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u/[deleted] Oct 16 '21

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u/BeNice_777 Oct 16 '21

Did I say the vaccines don't work?

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u/VPee Oct 16 '21

Nope, it says that when they are vaccinated post recovery the immunity they get is much better than just recovering.

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u/BeNice_777 Oct 16 '21

No, it says the when they are vaccinated post recovery the immunity they get is much better than just being vaccinated. You have your variables mixed up.

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u/Weak_Plenty Oct 16 '21

I don’t think they compared those two groups. For instance:

A study from Qatar suggests that people who get Pfizer–BioNTech’s mRNA vaccine after infection are less likely to test positive for COVID-19 than are individuals with no history of infection

What about people who never got the vaccine in the first place?

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u/Squanchyouvurymuch Oct 16 '21

These are the questions that any objective scientist or rational person would be asking. The way they frame this article without comparing those other categories makes their agenda pretty obvious.

If they want the skeptics to ever take this vaccine they need to quit being so blatantly deceptive with all of their language surrounding these studies. They've fooled the amount of people that can be fooled by it and the rest see right through the deception and it adds to the skepticism.

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u/Topes01545 Oct 16 '21

No research required. It makes sense that vaccines leverage antibody response already present. Why does this need to be studied?

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u/nursejackieoface Oct 16 '21

It makes sense ... Why does this need to be studied?

We can't base scientific or medical decisions and recommendations on what "makes sense". We need to be pretty damn sure of how things work.

Some studies like this are based on statistical interpretation of info gathered routinely for other purposes.

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u/sluuuurp Oct 16 '21

How is this a mystery? The immune system responds more after being exposed to a virus. This is true for pretty much every disease, this is how vaccines work, everyone already knows this. I’m sure the authors understand this, so the title is simply a sensationalist misrepresentation of the research.

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u/jl_theprofessor Oct 16 '21

So is this article saying I’m immortal?

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u/phdpeabody Oct 16 '21 edited Oct 16 '21

Their immune system is already triggered to immediately respond to the vaccine vs someone who’s immune system learns to respond to it.

How stupid do they think we are?

This “super response” happens every time someone with antibodies comes in re-contact with the contagion. It’s called immune response.

The production of these effector cells as a result of the first-time exposure is called a primary immune response. Memory T and memory B cells are also produced in the case that the same pathogen enters the organism again. If the organism does happen to become re-exposed to the same pathogen, a secondary immune response will kick in and the immune system will be able to respond in both a fast and strong manner because of the memory cells from the first exposure.

This is an upside-down-world way to say, scientists can’t figure out why their experimental mRNA vaccines are only creating weakened immune response.

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u/Adventurous-Text-680 Oct 16 '21

Incorrect conclusion.

Many studies of hybrid immunity haven’t followed naive vaccine recipients for as long as those who recovered from COVID-19, and it’s possible their B cells will make antibodies that gain potency and breadth with more time, additional vaccine doses, or both, researchers say. It can take months for a stable pool of memory B cells to establish itself and mature.

“It’s not surprising that people infected and vaccinated are getting a nice response,” says Ali Ellebedy, a B-cell immunologist at Washington University in St. Louis, Missouri. “We are comparing someone who started the race three to four months ago to someone who started the race now.”

They go on to say that a third dose could have similar effects. The title is silly, but science is about noticing things and trying to understand them. Basically the article is pointing out a fault in the studies and more studies are needed to make better comparisons by reducing more variables (ie difference of time the b cells have to do their thing after initial contact with "COVID").

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u/somedave PhD | Quantum biology and Ultracold atom physics Oct 16 '21

Intuitively this doesn't seem surprising. If you get repeatedly exposed to something your immune system reacts more.

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u/mrRabblerouser Oct 16 '21

Wouldn’t that be just like getting vaccinated twice? How is that a puzzle? Recovering from a virus produces antibodies, and so does being vaccinated, which would increase the overall immunoresponse. I’d be far more surprised if this wasn’t the case.

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u/lifeson106 Oct 16 '21

My grandma had covid last December, was vaccinated in February and now caught covid and is in the hospital as we speak. I know that's just anecdotal, but it just goes to show that no immune response, vaccinated or not, is perfect.

Don't mess around and test your odds against the statistics. Get vaccinated, take care of your body and give yourself the best odds you can get.

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u/Oriential-amg77 Oct 16 '21

Now if only we could reproduce those anti-bodies, grow them in a Petri dish and get this over and done with

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u/folksywisdomfromback Oct 16 '21

I am confused, why is this a puzzle? Your immune systems creates protections after you get the virus, varied by individual of course.

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u/KidKarez Oct 16 '21

You mean our immune system creating antibodies after getting sick....

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u/Chervonayborsht Oct 16 '21

Takeaway: Chad Rogan was right all along.

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u/NightlyWry Oct 16 '21

I got infected February 2020. I also think I got the Delta variant, but never got tested, just quarantined while I felt like crap (not nearly as bad the second time around). Got vaccinated. Only had two notable effects…being super tired for a day and back aches for a day after the second one. It’d be cool to see the effect it has. I’d donate serum, no problem.

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u/njstout Oct 16 '21

Has anyone who takes 5000 iu of vitamin D daily gotten covid?

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u/QuakerPunk Oct 16 '21

I take 10,000 IU of vitamin D twice a week and I got it

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u/Jetberry Oct 16 '21

My understanding is that low vitamin D levels make you more likely to have a serious infection, but high levels of vitamin D don’t protect from getting infected in the first place.

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u/cpheretic77 Oct 16 '21

Historically, when one would contract a virus they would develop antibodies, I'd be willing to bet, dollars to donuts, that these antibodies may be the culprit.

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u/onacloverifalive MD|Bariatric Surgeon Oct 16 '21

Because they already had sufficient immunity, duh.

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u/orbit99za Oct 16 '21

I will donate my blood, for reaserch, as I had it in this order. Covid + (PCR test, classic symptoms), Phyzer 1 - 30 days after recovery Phyzer 2 after 45 days.

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u/megapeanut32 Oct 16 '21

Wait this goes against everything the CDC pushed since the pandemic began

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u/Harmonic_Flatulence Oct 17 '21

What are you talking about? Seriously, I am confused where you are getting this idea from.

What CDC thing does this go against?

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u/StoicDruid Oct 16 '21

It’s called original antigenic sin. That’s why.

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u/leakedcode Oct 16 '21

I currently am in quarantine with COVID (Confirmed Delta) on day 8. I have zero symptoms, 35M, had two doses of AstraZeneca in April and June. I travelled to the US for a wedding last weekend. Only reason I knew was because a negative PCR test is required for me to return home, bam positive…

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u/Smash55 Oct 16 '21

Seems like common sense to me

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u/idgafid7 Oct 16 '21

You have passed the mother Nature 's test.

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u/Xyrektv Oct 16 '21

I had the delta variant in april. I just got my first phizer dose. The vaccine was 100% worse than actual covid. I got diarrhea, I vomited, I had chills and was lethargic for several days after my shot. During delta I had a minor headache and a pressure behind my eyes for 2 days, with mild body aching.

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u/hotdogwaterandpledge Oct 16 '21

Glaxosmithkline and VIR has had a drug in the works for over a year and although I can't find the original article that stated that this drug prevented covid 19 from escape in lab tests with great results.

Vir’s drug is modeled on an antibody taken from a survivor of a previous coronavirus, SARS-CoV, first identified in 2003 and which resembles the new coronavirus called SARS-CoV-2. The drug is designed to bind to a site on the coronavirus and neutralize it, preventing it from reproducing itself and hijacking human tissue.

This doesn't make any sense to me how all these other companies made it to market but they are only getting into phase 3.

Maybe someone with better sleuthing skills can located it. It talked about using the blood of a person who overcame SarsCov back in 2003. Hopefully someone can find it and that this drug eradicates the virus

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u/gayhipster980 Oct 16 '21

But how does COVID natural immunity + vaccine compare to standalone natural immunity?

We’ve known natural immunity was monumentally stronger than vaccine immunity for a long time now, but the interesting question is whether the vaccine bolsters it further.

That the combination would be stronger than the vaccine alone is exceedingly obvious, so not sure why that’s headline news.

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u/Harmonic_Flatulence Oct 17 '21

We’ve known natural immunity was monumentally stronger than vaccine immunity for a long time now

Have we? Where are you getting that idea from?

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u/j05huaMc Oct 17 '21

I can't believe that I actually knew this before the doctors. Next we will find out natural immunity is much better long-term than any vaccine

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u/CryBerry Oct 17 '21

Glad I waited for my vax and got covid in the interim