r/dataisbeautiful OC: 2 Oct 06 '21 Take My Energy 2 Facepalm 2 Silver 17 Gold 1 Helpful 13 Wholesome 5 Hugz 9 All-Seeing Upvote 1

More Americans Have Died From COVID Than From All Foreign Conflicts in US history [OC] OC

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58.7k Upvotes

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4.7k

u/MasterDood Oct 06 '21 Silver Helpful Wholesome Giggle Brighten My Day

Moral of the story: always buy the large pizza instead of two mediums

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u/The_Virginia_Creeper Oct 06 '21 Silver

It's like the time my neighbor was telling me he needed a patio for his 16' pool so he bought two paver kits for 8' circular patios...

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u/snitterific Oct 07 '21

As a 6th grade math teacher currently reviewing surface area, this breaks my heart.

303

u/eppinizer Oct 07 '21

Don't worry, I'm sure you'll learn it someday!

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u/SweetVanillaOatMilk Oct 07 '21

Maybe when they become a 7th grade math teacher 🧑‍🏫

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u/chemisus Oct 07 '21

If you can't do it, teach it.

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u/SweetVanillaOatMilk Oct 07 '21

Ah, an English techer.

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u/chemisus Oct 07 '21

Wow, I had that typo fixed in like ten seconds after submitting it. That's impressive that you caught that.

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u/_Mitternakt Oct 07 '21

Please make sure they know. Explaining speaker surface area to people is tedious

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u/LastStar007 Oct 07 '21

Surface area of a speaker? Is that important to audio engineering or something?

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u/techno_babble_ OC: 9 Oct 07 '21

It's particularly important for subwoofers, where the cone area is related to the maximum loudness they are able to produce.

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u/DuckDrunkLove Oct 07 '21

I'll be the idiot who asks - why is that bad?

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u/InEnduringGrowStrong Oct 07 '21

Math, circle surface area. Let's work with pizzas, same problem. 2 x 8" pizzas are smaller than a 16" pizza.

More explanation:
https://www.primermagazine.com/2017/learn/one-18-pizza-is-more-pizza-than-two-12-pizzas-math-shows-us-why-primer-tackling-the-serious-issues

That said... for the pavers, they'd probably only do the circumference and not under the pool itself so it's probably not too bad.

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u/TravelingMonk Oct 07 '21

Maybe he had a rectangular pool

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u/MattO2000 Oct 07 '21

Hopefully 16’ x 6.28’

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u/professorpyro41 Oct 07 '21

does the patio go under the pool or is it a ring around it?

if its a ring thats not far off and you can vary the width...

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u/snowshoeBBQ Oct 07 '21

*sigh *...this is something I would have totally done.

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u/Nuclear_rabbit OC: 1 Oct 07 '21

Isn't that about circumference rather than area? In which case, C = pi * d, and this works out okay for him?

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u/Austin83powers Oct 06 '21

Doesn't it depend on the price?

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u/webby_mc_webberson Oct 06 '21

While I agree with the comment about the audacity of bringing math into this math problem, there's the greater point that if the pizzeria is selling 2 medium pizzas for a better price than a single large, they're doing it wrong.

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u/wranglingmonkies Oct 06 '21

But what if I want a Hawaiian pizza and a combo pizza??????

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u/Skirem Oct 06 '21

Then you're a savage

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u/wranglingmonkies Oct 06 '21 Gold Wholesome Updoot

I'll die on this hill. Hawaiian pizza is good.

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u/ColonelBigsby Oct 06 '21

I will die with you. There are dozens of us!

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u/Rocket3431 Oct 07 '21

At least a dozen dozens of us

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u/XGN_Freshly Oct 07 '21

I’mma go die on the barbecue sauce with pineapple hill.

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u/SAlNT_PABLO Oct 07 '21

Now that you’ve said that, I would totally smash a barbecue chicken pizza with pineapple...

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u/ssbm_rando Oct 07 '21

I mean it may be the minority but honestly it's still like over 30% of people who like pineapple on pizza, otherwise so many places wouldn't bother stocking it as an option lol

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u/IT_is_not_all_I_am Oct 07 '21

I liked Hawaiian pizza until I tried pepperoni and pineapple, which is just way better than with ham. And then I realized the meat was unnecessary and just pineapple (and cheese) was delicious too.

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u/DeanBlandino Oct 07 '21

pineapple and prosciutto or pineapple and spanish chorizo are pretty great as well.

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u/Aspalar Oct 06 '21

Most places will do half and half

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u/ShaquilleMobile Oct 06 '21

Yes. But it's almost universally a good rule of thumb. You gotta compare diameter to surface area.

10 inch pizza (small) is 78 square inches of surface area.

12 inch pizza (medium) is 113 square inches.

14 inch pizza (large) is 153 square inches.

16 inch pizza (extra large) is 201 square inches.

This means that a medium pizza is roughly 45% bigger than a small, and a large pizza is roughly 35% bigger than a medium.

At Domino's in the USA, a medium hand-tossed cheese pizza is $8, and a large is $10.

For 25% more money, you are getting 35% more pizza.

If you look at Domino's $6 small pizza vs the $12 extra large pizza, you can pay 100% more money to get 158% more pizza. I think this is the most revealing example.

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u/Sinestro617 Oct 06 '21

There's always a promo to get the medium for $6. There's also carry out promo to get a large for $8. A xl is $14 with no promos to get it cheaper. So it's really 133% more money for 77% more pizza to get the xl over the medium.

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u/captaincarot Oct 06 '21

This is why critical thinking is important. Their base line is how you have to consider the product but the ability to understand relative value across seperate variables is what seperates a leader from the guy who gets the last piece with no toppings on it.

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u/CeeJayDK Oct 07 '21

American pricing does not always make sense to me.

I visited the states and ate at Burger King and noted that a Double Whopper contained twice the meat of a Whopper but the same of everything else. Yet it cost slightly more than double of the Whopper.

So if I had the appetite for it I could have ordered two Whoppers and gotten twice the buns, twice the salad, twice the tomato, twice the dressing, twice the meat .. twice everything and of course twice the price, but if I ordered the Double Whopper I could get less .. and pay more!

I also find the concept of free refills and different priced cups odd. You can order a small, medium or large and they come with 3 different prices. But they all allow free refills so if you are have the thirst for a large you can just order the small and get refills until your thirst is quenched.
The only reason I see someone would then get the Large would be if they were ordering take-out and eating and drinking somewhere else where they couldn't then just get a refill.

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u/Sinestro617 Oct 07 '21

I just took a look on their website for my area and the single whopper is $5.79 while a double is 90 cents more. Not sure when you visited or what region but a double whopper is significantly cheaper than 2 whoppers in my area.

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u/mooburger Oct 07 '21

I also find the concept of free refills and different priced cups odd.

  1. soft drinks are the highest margin product for a restaurant because the flavored corn syrup, water and gas are mixed on-site by the "soda fountain" machine; the restaurants are not paying retail pricing per volume; the majority of the retail cost of a soft drink is driven by the material cost of producing and the logistical cost of transporting and storing the pre-mixed liquid in the plastic or metal container, not the cost of making the liquid.

  2. The majority of fast food orders are drive-thru or carry-out, which provide no opportunities for refill, so those customers will always go for a larger drink size (because it's horrible when you run out of coke when you still have half a container full of fries), especially when "supersize is only $1 more!". On top of that, unless the customer requests otherwise, the usual amount of ice to include in the soft drink order is usually at least half the the container size, which further reduces the total cost to the restaurant. Offering free refills, however, incentivizes customers who chose to sit-in to stay longer at the restaurant, which provides the opportunity to sell additional products (such as dessert items), which offsets any marginal cost of the free extra cup or 2 of soft drink.

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u/ImperialAuditor Oct 06 '21

For the relative areas, you don't have to do the tedious multiplication by pi.

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u/BassMaster516 Oct 06 '21

How dare you bring math into this math problem?

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u/Bull_Winkle69 Oct 06 '21

This is cool, but don't buy the extra large. It's always undercooked in the middle or burnt on the edges.

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u/Ameyring2 Oct 07 '21

And the box likely won't fit in the fridge if you're too lazy to put the leftovers in Tupperware!

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u/pandamiba Oct 07 '21

You don't just leave it on the counter to graze on over the next 24 hours?

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u/weigelf Oct 06 '21

All I know is that two large Papa John's pizzas delivered cost 10,000 Bitcoin.

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u/aiij Oct 07 '21

Prices have changed a bit since back then. Now you can get 10,000 large Papa John's pizzas for about 2 Bitcoins.

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u/elveszett OC: 2 Oct 07 '21

Indeed, since 10,000 large pizzas at 2 bitcoin today would come at $11 each.

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u/needs_more_username OC: 2 Oct 06 '21 Silver Gold Platinum Wholesome Hugz

The graph was created using Adobe Illustrator with the surface area of each circle equaling the death toll. Data source. I had made another post that reflected the death toll in the diameter of the circles. Many of you pointed out that this was not an accurate reflection of the data, and I agree. This oversight was due to my inexperience with data visualization and not malintent. Thank you everyone who kindly (and not so kindly) offered their feedback.

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u/Portamentos Oct 06 '21

Thank you for correcting this. You handled the criticism very well.

1.1k

u/willostree Oct 06 '21

Great job on taking the constructive feedback!

One thing lost between what you were trying to show previously and this iteration is the overlap comparison. Maybe a dotted line circle within the COVID circle to show the summation of the war circles?

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u/Samothrace_ Oct 06 '21

That’s a really good idea. The chart is incredibly impactful, I love it. But we’re left to do the geometry of adding all those other circles together to figure out if what you’re stating is true. I don’t think most people understand how scaling works on 2 dimensions. Especially, when you make it circles. Adding volumes or areas together in our heads is not a normal trait unless you’ve spent a lot of time doing it.

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u/InsuranceToTheRescue Oct 06 '21

Another option is one of those charts where it's all broken down into squares/rectangles that are side-by-side? I can't find an example but I see then a lot for things like portion of each industry that makes up a country's GDP.

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u/Slickaxer Oct 06 '21

Stacked vertical bar chart is what you're talking about. Agreed to that is the most intuitive ways to compare area. Humans aren't good at this comparing areas of circles. But with those bar charts it's simply which one is taller.

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u/Greedish Oct 06 '21

I think they mean a treemap chart, which would be really appropriate for this

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u/John02904 Oct 07 '21

I think he was referring to a tree map chart

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u/WhoopingPig Oct 06 '21

And make the bars look scary

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u/Tiiba Oct 06 '21

So, like, put eyes on them, or make them look like a witch's broomstick? For Spooktober?

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u/Samothrace_ Oct 06 '21 edited Oct 06 '21

I’d just put some dashed lines from all those outer war circles leading into a circle inside the covid circle (assuming it’s smaller if you’re right) and label the inner circle appropriately with what it represents and the total number of deaths from all those wars. Just FFS, make sure your math is right in the circle areas and number labels are accurate. People will crucify you if it’s not reasonably accurate. And I wouldn’t try to stop them.

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u/MattieShoes Oct 06 '21

Or just make rectangles so you can actually demonstrate that one is more than the others combined...

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u/slowfloyd Oct 06 '21

I’d be interested in seeing this graph but per capita vs total deaths, and see how all this compares.

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u/QuestioningEspecialy Oct 06 '21

Can you do it by percentage of population at the time?
edit: What if you put all the circles inside the COVID one so thst that effectively stack? Would make comparison easier.

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u/DarreToBe OC: 2 Oct 06 '21

Good on you for changing and reposting. It was a good idea and it is attractive. 👍

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u/Franklin_le_Tanklin Oct 06 '21

This is nice and all - but for all those military deaths, the solders had the pre-existing condition of being on a war zone. Those don’t count /s

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u/Trash_man66 Oct 06 '21

Much better. And you fixed the ”War World 1” too

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u/Kaitain1977 OC: 1 Oct 06 '21

Sad to see "War World 1" go... sounded like an exciting (if dangerous) place :-)

On topic: this diagram looks much better. Good job!

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u/Fierce_Lito Oct 06 '21

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u/NarcissusLovesEcho Oct 06 '21 edited Oct 06 '21

Here's a very messy table with the numbers. Covid is between WW1 and WW2, currently, in terms of foreign wars. It's about 1/10th of the Civil War. It's about 1/3rd of the 1918 pandemic.

American Revolution (1775-'83) 113

War of 1812 (1812-'14) 31

Mexican War (1846-'48) 78

Civil War (1861-'65) 1965

Spanish-American War (1898) 4

World War I (1917-'18) 126

World War II (1941-'45) 307

Korean War (1950-'53) 24

Vietnam War (1955/'64-'75) 32

Gulf War (1990-'91) 0

Iraq/Afghanistan (2001-present) 2

Covid-19 pandemic 214

1918 pandemic 640

Edit: Updated to include 1918 pandemic numbers and remove asterisks that were in table I copied labels from.

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u/MattieShoes Oct 06 '21
War Deaths per 100,000
Civil War 1965
World War II 307
Covid 214
World War I 126
American Revolution 113
Mexican War 78
Vietnam 32
War of 1812 31
Korean War 24
Spanish-American War 4
Iraq/Afghanistan 2
Gulf War 0

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u/[deleted] Oct 06 '21

[deleted]

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u/MattieShoes Oct 06 '21

Lots of confounding factors, and everybody wants to measure something slightly different.

e.g. Medical technology is so much better now that the 1918 flu wouldn't have had the enormous body count today. WWII lasted 6 years, covid less than 2 so far, so do you divide to get per 100,000 per year? How do you deal with non-combat deaths? Civilian? Soldiers committing suicide? Soldiers dying from getting drunk and falling off a boat rather than enemy action? People who had Covid and COPD and died of respiratory failure?

Which means somebody that wants to disagree will always be able to find fault with any possible comparison. So you end up with things that sound more vague rather than less.

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u/fermbetterthanfire Oct 06 '21

Divide by ongoing years... so covid per year per 100,000 deaths is still higher than WWII

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u/1chemistdown Oct 06 '21

Where is the US Civil War?

Never mind. Just read the title and noticed the Foreign

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u/Fierce_Lito Oct 06 '21

Heya, good on you.

On first glance this looks correct, and is presented well.

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u/CactusHopper Oct 06 '21

Humans aren’t very good at comparing areas. Volumes even worse. Our brains can only really make perfect sense of linear comparisons.

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u/grantmeaname Oct 06 '21

The areas of the circles lend themselves to a much better area interpretation of the data series! Maybe due to reddit the text is still unreadable until you go to zoom in.

It's odd to include all the wars but the Civil War. I get that the argument and point depends on excluding it but it still doesn't seem intellectually honest. You could do bars with COVID and then all the wars including the civil war in descending order and I think it would show the same point qualitatively...

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u/thankyeestrbunny Oct 06 '21

It's an interesting point by itself, isn't it. The one war the country spent exclusively killing its own people had more fatalities than COVID.

So far.

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u/grantmeaname Oct 06 '21

I thought the civil war was 600ish - so still below COVID, but enough that if you add it up with the other wars it's no longer less than COVID

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u/rebutter Oct 06 '21

Considering that the population at the time was around 25M vs around 330M now, the Civil War had a much bigger impact than Covid-19.

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u/ArcticBeavers Oct 06 '21

For those curious, as of today, the Civil War was an order of magnitude more deadly to the US population than Covid-19 (2.64% vs 0.21%)

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u/A-A-Ron1867 Oct 06 '21

I was curious and thank you

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u/cashewgremlin Oct 06 '21

And in terms of years of life lost was probably multiple orders of magnitude worse. Covid has killed mostly the elderly, while the civil war (and all wars) kill the young.

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u/jqb10 Oct 06 '21

This is also true. There's no telling the impact that the Civil War had long term on population and industry. Pretty amazing when you step back and think about it from a big picture standpoint and try and connect all of the dots to see just how much of a tremendous impact the war had.

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u/Flaky_Bee_2599 Oct 06 '21

That's why I hate these graphs. I get covid is bad, but saying things like "more people died of covid than X war" lacks a ton of context and is misleading.

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u/Aethermancer Oct 06 '21

It's still real people being affected. Just because it's a smaller percentage of a whole doesn't mean there weren't hundreds of thousands of friends, family members, wives, husband's, grandmothers... All real individual people with lives loves and people who loved them.

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u/bjfar Oct 06 '21

Yeah it's a bit twisted to scale the value of human life with total population. Like individual people have less value now just because there are more of us in total?

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u/NotSoSubtle1247 Oct 06 '21

The death toll of the civil war has been revised up a few times by historians. 622k is essentially the confirmed death toll, but there's good evidence it might be up closer to 850k. The nature of that war makes it hard to be certain.

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u/Stoomba Oct 06 '21

One could say the same thing about covid. The official death toll is like ~750k, but how many people died directly from covid that aren't in that number and how many people died from other things but could not get the care they needed because hospitals were full because of covid?

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u/SethQ Oct 06 '21

I distinctly recall watching the results come in on election night 2016. They had called two states for Trump, I don't recall which, but they were two early ones. I thought to myself "huh, wonder when the last time those two agreed", so I checked. Anyway, to make a long story short, I ended up making some pithy post on Facebook the punchline of which was "the last time X and Y agreed on a president, 3% of Americans died" with a link to an electoral map of pre-civil war election.

It's a lot less funny now.

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u/something2258 Oct 06 '21

No way to not sound snobby when saying this, but the title said “Foreign” conflicts, not domestic conflicts, though the Civil War should’ve been included if the Revolutionary War is.

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u/Balforg Oct 06 '21

I guess the revolutionary war was foreign because there was no country at the time! That being said I would love to see the comparison with the civil war, too.

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u/TubbyandthePoo-Bah Oct 06 '21

The revolutionary war was against a foreign power.

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u/PDG_KuliK Oct 06 '21

The Revolutionary War war was between a government and a rebelling populace. The Civil War was between a government and a rebelling populace. The only difference was that in one, the rebels won.

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u/smileyfrown Oct 06 '21

The revolutionary war was technically a world war, because it involved conflicts between the newly founded United States, France, UK, Spain, Netherlands, and battles in Gibraltar and India. It wasn't just isolated to America and the battles happening all over the world directly impacted the UK's ability to stop the revolutionary forces here

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u/R011_5af3_yeah Oct 07 '21

It was against the existing government by rebels. The US as a country did not exist yet.

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u/Macarogi Oct 06 '21

I'm surprised by how much this graph reminds me of a foot.

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u/mesmes99 Oct 06 '21

How many toes do you have?

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u/DaftSaraf Oct 06 '21

eleven. I don't wanna talk about it.

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u/nalk201 Oct 06 '21

On one foot?

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u/TheBlackestIrelia Oct 06 '21

Nah, between the three of them.

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u/JorjEade Oct 06 '21

That just raises further questions

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u/Salty_Manx Oct 07 '21

Yeah like when did they lose a foot?

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u/Darth-Pooky Oct 06 '21

This is what I can to say. The dots look like toes, and it’s kinda creepy.

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u/legitimate_rapper Oct 06 '21

If you insist on doing area, do a chart where COVID is the big/outer rectangle, and the other parts are rectangles inside the outer rectangle. Human are shit and comparing the size of circles.

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u/Mtwat Oct 06 '21

I don't get why concentric/internally-tangent circles argent used more. They're the easiest way to compare relative circle sizes.

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u/whycantwebefriends42 Oct 06 '21

I feel like this graph would show a better representation if it was done by percent of population at the time. It's hard to compare today with something that happened 100 years ago since there were also much less people

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u/ghost1s Oct 06 '21

I said this exact same thing on tik tok and got like 200 furious comments in reply lol

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u/antsugi Oct 06 '21

Easy fix, don't go on TikTok

Eventually ween off reddit too

Intelligent discussion has no place on social media

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u/whycantwebefriends42 Oct 06 '21
  1. People just like to argue with anything they even think might be different then what they believe is true

  2. People like to take comments out of context and twist it to their feelings. All we were trying to do was make a point on how to better represent the data.

Thanks for your comment. It makes me feel less alone and reminds me to not listen to all the angry people out there. Hope you keep fighting the good fight!

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u/ghost1s Oct 06 '21

It really would represent the data more clearly, I actually said that exact same thing too lol

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u/LotusSloth Oct 06 '21

Where’d these numbers come from? They don’t match the war casualty numbers that I just looked up (Wiki). Just curious. And, as a comparison point, how does COVID rate against other mass casualty events (Smallpox, Spanish flu)?

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u/Regimentalforce Oct 06 '21

Casualties =\ deaths, it includes injuries

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u/DerogatoryDuck Oct 06 '21

I'm amazed more people aren't aware of this

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u/scooter-maniac Oct 06 '21

I learned this today in a different thread. It's straight magical how I can not know something for 37 years and then 1 hour after I learn it, it gets brought up again. Fucking ghosts man.

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u/OwenProGolfer Oct 06 '21

Baader-Meinhoff Effect

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u/SugaryPlumbs Oct 07 '21

Yes, but also the internet can amplify suddenly popular information. When one of the images from the Loop Hero demo had "haute cuisine" in it, the term started popping up all over the place for a week, and that wasn't a phrase that was just sneakily going unnoticed until then.

If one of the top comments in a popular thread mentions a fact that a lot of people on Reddit didn't know, then it's very likely that the same people are still on Reddit an hour later and eager to share.

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u/JeromesNiece Oct 06 '21

It's understandable to me. The colloquial usage of "casualty" seems to imply a total loss or death. It seems counter intuitive (to me) to include someone who is merely injured as a casualty

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u/Thrud_The_Barbarian Oct 07 '21

Generals don't necessarily care about deaths, they care about how many functional soldiers are now nonfunctional.

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u/Sarcastic24-7 Oct 07 '21

I was not aware

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u/BlueBear45 Oct 06 '21

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u/LotusSloth Oct 06 '21

That source has different numbers than the viz, hence my question.

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u/Raerosk Oct 06 '21

If you select the second link, total military deaths not the combat deaths section I believe you get the above data

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u/zardmander Oct 06 '21

Find the section labeled "Wars ranked by total number of U.S. military deaths"

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u/FUnpopularopinions Oct 06 '21

Also the population is 200,000,000 more than during ww2. .2% population dead from covid vs .3 % dead from ww2

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u/Mentalfloss1 Oct 06 '21

Beat the Spanish flu: https://www.news-medical.net/news/20210921/COVID-19-deaths-in-US-surpass-1918-Spanish-Flu-pandemic.aspx

Smallpox was around forever and was/is incurable, though many survived. A VACCINE ended smallpox just as one greatly reduces flu deaths and is cutting way down on Covid deaths. It’s stupid that people choose to die rather than to admit to believing lies.

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u/LotusSloth Oct 06 '21

I agree with you. That’s willful ignorance and self-selection against survival.

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u/avidblinker Oct 06 '21

If COVID were the spanish flu, there would be a lot less people against vaccinations

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u/jagua_haku Oct 06 '21

I’ve always felt that comparing disease to war casualties is pretty disingenuous. It would much more interesting to see disease vs disease, or US war casualties vs Russian casualties (they had a rough 20th century)

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u/FullmetalVTR Oct 06 '21

I suppose it really depends on what you’re trying to say with your data.

My takeaway is that there is / was an incalculable amount of public and media attention, public outrage, political upheaval, fiction and non-fiction written, performed and filmed over the deaths of U.S soldiers in all of it’s wars. It is interesting to consider those things when thinking about the situation we are living through currently.

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u/[deleted] Oct 06 '21

[deleted]

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u/LotusSloth Oct 06 '21

I agree that normalizing as a percentage of total population is a good idea. Do you have those data?

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u/Beleynn OC: 1 Oct 06 '21

The wiki link of US combat deaths has that in the table too (for some wars)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_military_casualties_of_war

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u/AVALANCHE_CHUTES Oct 06 '21

Not to mention Covid hasn’t had a drastic impact on life expectancy given it kills mostly older people. War, on the other hand…

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u/abstract-realism Oct 07 '21

How long til we pass civil war too?

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u/[deleted] Oct 07 '21

Depending on the numbers you use, we may have already. Estimates range between 620k and 750k for the Civil War.

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u/-AATAnnouncer Oct 06 '21

So the Civil War is discounted for being a domestic conflict, but the Revolutionary War is considered foreign?

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u/dukevyner Oct 06 '21

That is a bit strange I guess because the US acknowledged that Brittan was a different country, where as the US didn't formally recognise the confederacy as a country. in fact is seems no country recognised the confederacy... On the contrary the US was recognised by France, the Netherlands, Spain, and Sweden before Great Britain also recognised them at the end of the revolutionary war.

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u/Kraldar Oct 07 '21

A lot of people today forget that a large factor in the revolutionary war was that the colonies had the lawful rights of Englishman under the empire, and these rights were being ignored.

The justification of the revolutionary war kind of hinged on it being a domestic conflict at the start in terms of the the empire.

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u/JOHNSON5JOHNSON Oct 06 '21

Yes? America post Declaration of Independence (which was recognized by foreign powers like france) vs. Britain or America vs. Confederacy which really wasn’t recognized internationally

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u/pm__small___tits Oct 06 '21

Confederacy was de facto recognized by several countries such as England, France, Cuba and Brazil. The Union threatened to declare war against anyone who would recognize Confederacy, but still there was a bill in British Parliament to recognize Confederacy. Cuba and Brazil has trade agreements with Confederacy and later Brazil accepted immigrants from Confederacy: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confederados

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u/RE5TE Oct 06 '21

I guess the distinction is that they were both fought 100% on US soil

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u/general_kenobi18462 Oct 06 '21

John Paul Johns harassing British home soil seeing this comment be like:

(Also we tried to invade Quebec)

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u/januarytwentysecond Oct 07 '21

Notice: the civil war is not on here, because it killed 750,000 soldiers on top of uncounted civilians

You can't kill us, only we can kill us! USA! USA!

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u/Dradwarf777 Oct 07 '21

It also specifically says “foreign conflict”

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u/lmstr Oct 06 '21

I'd like to see how covid compared with the Spanish flu and war deaths but comparing lost living years... obviously losing a life is terrible, but it would be interesting to compare in total years of lost life, a 20 year old dying is obviously a lot worse than someone in their 90s.

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u/lastsaturday27 Oct 07 '21

This is something I can’t say in real life but here we go.. I know one person who died of covid.. she was 84 and in a retirement home with severe dimentia.. while it is sad, the thought of a mother in her 30’s who I’ve never met dying of breast (or any other) cancer upsets me much more

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u/Cronaldo547 Oct 07 '21

Obesity says those are rookie numbers

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u/Odd-Ad-111 Oct 06 '21

Why not compare it to other diseases

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u/BlueBear45 Oct 06 '21

Surprised at how many we lost during WW2. Always thought it was less.

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u/chupala69 Oct 06 '21

If you adjust the death toll to population, it becomes much worse.

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u/LanchestersLaw Oct 06 '21

America left WW2 relatively unscathed compared to all other participants. Many countries lost upwards of 1 in 20 people.

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u/dickpicsformuhammad Oct 06 '21

Those numbers of 1 in 20 are primarily those who had a lot of civilian deaths.

If SF, Seattle, Boston, NYC, NOLA, etc. were being bombed constantly and civilians were being massacred in the tens of thousands at a time, it’d be horrible for us too.

In terms of military deaths, Germany, Japan, China and Russia suffered far and away worse than everyone else.

But then you look at Poland who had 240k military deaths but took 5.6million civilian deaths.

I’m not disagreeing but just clarifying, what got death counts to 1 in 20 is the civilian deaths in the wake of Axis occupation and subsequent obliteration of Axis homelands.

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u/BluePizzaPill Oct 06 '21 edited Oct 06 '21

To put this in perspective: on the eastern front there were multiple battles where both sides lost double or triple the amount of soldiers the US lost in all theaters of war combined.

For example Stalingrad: Soviets ~1.2m military casualties, ~500k dead or missing, the rest POWs with 60% death rate. That is one side of one battle losing more soldiers than the US and UK combined during the whole war. Axis had 800k casualties (POW, MIA, KIA) there too.

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u/thecashblaster Oct 06 '21

They’re still finding mass graves of German soldiers near Volgograd

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u/ShadowShot05 Oct 06 '21

It's more like we lost a little compared to everyone else

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u/thisisinput Oct 06 '21

I believe the Soviet Union lost the most soldiers, like 10 million. A surprising amount from just famine too.

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u/Yodaa-san Oct 06 '21

The ussr lost 22 million people (some data even say 26 million), including 12 million civilians. Followed by China with 20 million

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u/thisisinput Oct 06 '21

Yup, so 10 million soldiers seems accurate. Brutal compared to the United States.

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u/wrongron Oct 06 '21

World War 2 was a hoax.

/s

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u/BassandBows Oct 06 '21

Could you do this as percentage of US population? A quick check says that 2% of the U.S. population from the civil war compared to the 0.2% from covid. That was just a really quick check so my numbers might be off!

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u/aadhar690 Oct 06 '21

OP got some real dedication. I also found that post pretty "misleading"

Good job OP. Better to correct mistakes than ignore them and this is a rare quality

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u/XxLawdogxX Oct 07 '21

I love how they had to include "foreign" so as to negate the Civil War. In doing so, Covid deaths dwarf the others by a long shot. Civil War deaths range from around the same number to even greater.

I still like the graph though. 😁

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u/iceicig Oct 06 '21

We are 50k off from the civil war

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u/cardinalkgb Oct 06 '21

50k more

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u/iceicig Oct 06 '21

Depends on your estimate. Civil war was between 620k and 750k deaths. I went with the higher estimate. 700k covid deaths, 750k civil war deaths. 50k ish off

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u/hanesbro Oct 06 '21

Yeah, and about 90% fewer Americans in 1860 now than in 2020.

If civil war happened today ~7 million deaths.

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u/gunner7517 Oct 06 '21

Exactly. Weird that people leave that fact out. It was a much lower population. So the deaths were much more noticeable.

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u/ralpher1 Oct 06 '21

If it were boxes you could fit the boxes in the covid one

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u/Bugloaf Oct 07 '21

This stat needs to be weighed against the population percentage of the US at the time of these events. Otherwise, for my purposes/opinion, it's a misleading presentation.

(After the last time I made a similar comment: I'm pro-vax, I got the J&J the earliest I could, don't fucking kill me in the comments for fuck's sake.)

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u/wreakpb2 Oct 06 '21

Wasn't the revolutionary war mostly inside the U.S?

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u/BlacksmithTough2908 Oct 07 '21

Shows that we're really good fighters in non-biological wars.

Also can we show this graph for Heart Disease & Cancer? I think you'd be shocked how big the grey graph is.

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u/TheOinOntario Oct 07 '21

Shows that you guys came to WW2 late!

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u/PalmaSolutions Oct 06 '21

Back in them wars there weren’t like 150 million ticking time bombs that could die at any point due to being overweight and having a long list of chronic diseases.

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u/Greful Oct 06 '21

I really wonder how many of them would still be alive, even with all their preexisting conditions, if it wasn’t for Covid. It just doesn’t seem like a guarantee they’d be dead by now either way.

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u/MulletAndMustache Oct 06 '21

The average age of deaths would also be an interesting data point to include.

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u/LimeSugar Oct 06 '21

Tobacco Industry: Pshaw! Rookie numbers!

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u/Grn_Apricorn Oct 06 '21

Is there any data available for the 20 year Afghanistan war?

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u/Humansharpei Oct 07 '21

Isn't it wild how Republicans used to be so against people having the ability to choose to end their life humanely as in the Terri Schiavo case because "eVeRy LiFe iS pReCiOUS" but then when covid hits all of a sudden the deaths of people in the end stages of life or with serious medical conditions are markedly less tragic than young healthy people?

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u/thedotabovei Oct 07 '21

That’s 0,003% of population roughly, it’s bad of course but not as deadly as they advertise.

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u/justavault Oct 07 '21

Can you add influenza lethality to that graph?

And pneumonia isolated.

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u/bigdckboii Oct 07 '21

Think the war on drugs is in the millions. Btw it's just americans, we have plenty, and honestly, a whole bunch that we'd do great without.

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u/SliverCobain Oct 06 '21

But, not all Americans went to war, so the numbers ofc would've been bigger for covid? It's like comparing apple to oranges here

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u/TheRealChoob Oct 06 '21

I wish all these deaths would lower the price of rent

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u/Just_a_Guy_In_a_Tank Oct 06 '21

Ok now do it by age:

How many 16-30 year olds died of COVID?

How many 70-90 year olds died in foreign wars?

You’re comparing two completely different segments of the population.

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u/Bicolore Oct 06 '21

There is a statistic for this but I can’t remember it’s name.

Say your average life expectancy is 75 and a patient dies if covid at 70 then that scores a 5. Soldier dies at 25? That’s 50.

Far more relevant numbers for comparing wars to a virus that mostly kills old people.

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u/Beneficial_Squash-96 Oct 06 '21 edited Oct 06 '21

Not that I want to downplay the tragedy of Covid, but it's kinda normal for these major plagues to kill more people than war. The Spanish Flu killed more people than WW1. In fact, in any war, you're more likely to die of disease than violence. Speaking of the Spanish Flu, it killed up to 850,000 Americans. If you adjust for population growth, Covid19 will have to kill over 2,770,000 Americans to match the mortality of the Spanish Flu. Considering that the Covid19 virus is actually related to the Spanish Flu virus, that shows that America deals with disease outbreaks much better than it did a century go, despite the fact that a great many Americans today resist vaccination and mask mandates (which didn't happen in 1918 AFAIK).

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u/ADarwinAward Oct 06 '21

Covid19 virus is related to the Spanish Flu virus

Covid is related to SARS, but not the Spanish Flu, which is the H1N1 influenza A virus.

A great many Americans today resist vaccination and mask mandates (which didn’t happen in 1918 AFAIK)

There were organized anti-mask groups in 1918. Over 1k were arrested in SF in a single day.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/03/us/mask-protests-1918.html

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u/joakims Oct 06 '21

History doesn't repeat itself, but it rhymes.

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u/Beneficial_Squash-96 Oct 06 '21

Thanks I learned something.

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u/cancerousking Oct 06 '21

But 750000 people died in the American Civil war

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u/icjp Oct 07 '21

Further proof that no one kills Americans better than Americans!

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u/Jacob_B_Walters Oct 06 '21 Silver

That's not foreign

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u/hap_l_o Oct 07 '21

Ever been to Mississippi? It’s foreign enough for me.

Seriously thought, It is easy for a lay audience to misread the title. So, I’d say a more fair comparison is “all wars”

This raises the thorny issue - do we count dead intelligence operatives from all our dirty, clandestine wars?

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u/Idkhfjeje Oct 07 '21

That would only add a few thousand at max, if even that.

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u/LambBrainz Oct 06 '21

Most historians I found seem to prefer the number 620,000. Or a range from 617k to 851k.

One of many sources: https://www.statista.com/statistics/1009819/total-us-military-fatalities-in-american-wars-1775-present/

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u/violet_alice Oct 07 '21

***foreign being the operative word. Good graph or not.

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u/Birdy_Cephon_Altera Oct 06 '21

This is better. Much better.

I still don't like to use circle area charts as a general rule (would prefer a stacked column), but if you're going to use them, this works.

In a format like this, you could also include a circle for the Civil War, and then remove the "foreign" qualifier. The circle for the Civil War deaths (both sides, ~655k) would be almost as big as COVID, and could fit in the lower left.

Minor constructive criticism: The numbers are pretty small. I would say COVID-19, not just COVID. You might also be able to add the timeframe each number is measured for comparison purposes (e.g. World War II, 1941-1945)

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u/Leggomyeggo69 Oct 06 '21

The population has also tripled since 1970. Not saying covid isn't scary, just that these numbers in ratio aren't as bad as they appear on this graph.

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