r/AskReddit Dec 02 '21 Helpful 9 Wholesome 7 Doom 1 Silver 10

What do you genuinely think will happen in the U.S.A if Roe v. Wade is overturned?

26.1k Upvotes

180

u/KMA-Bye Dec 03 '21

I can not believe this is once again on the tables. People should make the decision that is right for them. No governmental or religious group should have jurisdiction over women's bodies and the remainder of their lives. It would be imprisoning to women not wanting to be pregnant or give birth, and will cause many suicides and self inflicted or back alley abortions once again. So maybe SEX should be illegal and punishable to both men and women who don't have a signed agreement with any and all sex partners that are not wanting to become pregnant.

→ More replies

3.3k

u/[deleted] Dec 03 '21

[deleted]

1.5k

u/redmoskeeto Dec 03 '21 Helpful Wearing is Caring

The people that can move accordingly are not the people that RvW protects. Those that would move could always travel to a blue state for an abortion. This law hurts all women, but it hurts the poorest and underprivileged most of all.

→ More replies
→ More replies

3.5k

u/VolcanoCatch Dec 03 '21 Silver Gold Helpful Ally Eureka! Take My Power

One major issue that's often overlooked is medical care for pregnant women who miscarry, even those who wanted to keep the baby. Abortion bans often include any removal of living fetuses, even if they are braindead or slowly dying. But until it's heart stops, the mother has to keep that dead baby in her, risking septis and tons of physical/emotional pain. Women have died because doctors didn't want to cross that technical line.

1.5k

u/cardamom_poppies Dec 03 '21 Gold

Yeah, this killed Savita Halapannaver in Ireland and that horrible case basically was the snowball that kicked off Ireland finally legalizing abortion.

She literally would have been alive today if there hadn't been pointless dithering over the heartbeat of a doomed/already dead fetus.

512

u/itstimegeez Dec 03 '21

What happened to her was horrific. They let both Savita and her foetus die horrible deaths when they could put it out of its misery and allowed Savita to not be in pain anymore. Honestly people treat their pets with more dignity than this.

289

u/yellowscarvesnodots Dec 03 '21

The same happened to a woman called Izabella in Poland this year after abortion laws became even more strict. https://amp.dw.com/en/poland-protests-erupt-over-abortion-law-after-woman-dies/a-59744178

→ More replies
→ More replies

286

u/cutie_rootie Dec 03 '21

It's horrific. It also creates a witch hunt mentality for women who do have miscarriages. Imagine going through that for a pregnancy you very much wanted and having... what, fucking investigators there? Disgusting.

I have lulled myself into a false sense of security, at times, while following this situation. If I got pregnant it wouldn't be ideal, but I do want a baby with my current partner within the next... 5 years or so? If one came, we would keep it. I'm not in a position for a fully elective abortion (though if you are, you should get it, it's your choice.) But we must remember that this effects all people who can get pregnant, whether or not they want babies or think they may ever need an abortion. You truly never know what might happen.

154

u/Sdavis2911 Dec 03 '21

As someone who is living through a recent miscarriage, having someone come and interrogate us and our family about it would make the situation more than traumatizing.

→ More replies
→ More replies
→ More replies

32.6k

u/Yetizod Dec 02 '21 'MURICA

It'll go to the states. And then we can start having this argument all over again 50 times over.

13.6k

u/Cryostatica Dec 02 '21 Silver

Not fifty times. More than half of the states already have laws on the books just waiting for the day.

6.6k

u/youdubdub Dec 02 '21 edited Dec 02 '21 Silver Helpful

"Arkansas, Idaho, Kentucky, Louisiana, Mississippi, Missouri, North Dakota, Oklahoma,South Dakota, Tennessee, Texas, and Utah have trigger laws that wouldautomatically ban abortion in the first and second trimesters if thelandmark case Roe v. Wade were overturned."

I think it's twelve.

Edit:

Actually, nine have pre roe bans that could become active again, but I doubt AZ and WI, especially, and possibly others would allow for a full ban: AL, AR, AZ, MI, MS, OK, TX, WV, and WI

GA, OH, and SC have six week bans that are presently in the SCOTUS case. There are several crossovers between those three categories, but the group comprises 21 states.

Then there are five considered highly likely to put in full bans: FL, IN, MT, NE, and WY

Thanks to u/3rdtimeischarmy for the link below and good knowledge.

1.7k

u/3rdtimeischarmy Dec 02 '21

2.8k

u/raptorbluez Dec 02 '21 Helpful This

Considering the majority of Americans believe that abortion should be legal it should be interesting to see if that results in changes in voting patterns. It's one thing to have politicians say they're against something and IMO entirely another when they start effectively passing laws against it.

Up to now we could rely on the courts to prevent outright bans of something considered to be a constitutional right, but with the Supreme Court now a branch of the GQP, people are going to have to get out and vote if they want to make sure their rights are preserved.

I'm not optimistic.

1.3k

u/sugar182 Dec 02 '21

This is it. I am stunned this is moving forward because this is what they’ve always used to gas up their base and get them out to vote… once they “win” they won’t have the carrot to dangle. Idk.

676

u/ApesStonksTogether Dec 03 '21

But won't the rhetoric change from "elect conservatives to ban abortion" to "elect conservatives to stop liberals from legalizing abortions"?

→ More replies
→ More replies
→ More replies
→ More replies
→ More replies

3.9k

u/Fifty4FortyorFight Dec 02 '21 Silver

But some states have the opposite. I live in Illinois, where the state legislature has already passed legislation specifically affirming the right to an abortion and also removed the only real restriction that existed (a parental notification law).

Many people already travel for abortion care, and it's about to get insane here because we're surrounded by several red states.

→ More replies

682

u/Majestic_Grocery7015 Dec 02 '21

This is what scares me about the governor race in PA. Wolf has promised to veto any anti abortion legislation that comes across his desk, we may not be that lucky when his term is up

→ More replies
→ More replies
→ More replies

32

u/PM_Me_Routing_Numbrs Dec 03 '21

The ones who write enforce and enact the laws will still be able to get abortion for their mistresses and daughters.

196

u/MoltenMirrors Dec 03 '21

We actually kind of know this already, from countries where abortion is illegal today.

Unlike the 1960s, today pharmaceutical abortion is cheap, relatively safe, and easy to get even when it's illegal (pills can be sent through the mail, they're hard to distinguish chemically from normal hormone pills, and instructions are available on the internet). It's indistinguishable from natural miscarriage.

So what happens is that every miscarriage has to be treated as a potential homicide. And miscarriages are very, very common. Women will be arrested in the hospital. Doctors will be afraid to treat women with excessive bleeding from miscarriages due to the resulting investigation and potential loss of their license.

This what happens today in El Salvador.

https://theconversation.com/el-salvadors-abortion-ban-jails-women-for-miscarriages-and-stillbirths-now-one-womans-family-seeks-international-justice-156484

→ More replies

4.3k

u/leoder Dec 02 '21

Red states will ban abortion and people will go to blue states for abortions.

4.8k

u/Painting_Agency Dec 02 '21 Silver Wholesome

people

People who can afford to travel and take time off work, you mean.

2.3k

u/Infinite_abyss Dec 02 '21

More specifically, adults who have access to transportation, money, and support. Scared teens with no transportation, money, and support will suffer just like poor people.

1.2k

u/anorangeandwhitecat Dec 03 '21 edited Dec 03 '21 Silver Starry Narwhal Salute

This time a year ago I fully believed that if I was pregnant and could not get an abortion, I would kill myself. Full stop. Now it’s much less likely just because of personal growth, maturity, and a bit more stability, but suicide in young women will definitely skyrocket I believe.

Edit: downvote me all you want but it won’t change the fact that “pro-life” is just anti-vulnerable people.

Edit 2: It’s been a few hours and since I’m off work now I want to explain myself. I have a lot of thoughts on this and this’ll be a good outlet, I think. I’m on mobile so please forgive any formatting or spelling errors.

I think everyone can agree that abortion is not ideal. In fact, it is the very last resort. Absolutely no one wakes up in the morning, says “I want to have unprotected sex so I can just get an abortion in a month”. If you quote or refer to or know someone does say that, then they need mental health care because it’s not a normal thought process.

You cannot legislate morality, especially religion. And especially ultra-specific beliefs from one or two or even a few religions. The world doesn’t work like that. As much as you would like everyone to follow your values and belief system, it is simply not going to happen. Personally I’d love for everyone to believe what I do - but the world would not be better for it, as much as I would like to think so. You cannot put something into law just because your holy book said it was wrong (even though it didn’t but that’s a whole other discussion). The United States of America is not a theocracy and should never have its laws be based on any holy book or religious belief system at all. What should be considered, and this is how it used to be before the Religious Right showed up, is what’s best for the people and country as a whole. And that is available access to abortion care.

This brings me to two points. 1) If you do not believe in abortion or you think it is wrong - fine! You do you. Don’t get an abortion if you think it’s a sin. I don’t even care if you teach your children it’s a sin, because your god loves the little children. But what you don’t get to do is bring politics into it, or try to legislate what others do, or harass young, vulnerable women trying to get gynecological care at places that do abortions or are rumored to do so.

2) By legislating and effectively banning accessible abortion care, you’re endangering a vast group of vulnerable people. The people who will still be able to access this care are middle to upper class people with money and good transportation options, and - I’m gonna say it - privilege. If you’re a pro-lifer reading this, I am not trying to use a buzzword. I am saying that there is a certain group of people that will have the privilege to abortion care that others won’t if it is banned.

I’m just gonna list some vulnerable populations that will be negatively affected by a ban. Also keep in mind that “don’t have sex before marriage” is another thing that you can’t legislate, and is not a good argument against the people I am about to list.

  • Teens with little to no access to sex ed or contraception, this includes controlling parents as well as disadvantaged or conservative school systems

  • Teens, young adults, and even older adults in abusive relationships where pregnancy makes is so much harder to leave. Did you know that the number 1 cause of death in pregnant women is domestic violence/homicide? Also partners are more likely to cheat on their pregnant partners versus if they were non-pregnant.

  • People with medical or mental health issues that prevent pregnancy. This kinda ties in with my original comment. I got semi-permanent birth control because I was definitely not in a situation where I could have a baby, and also I most likely would’ve suicided if I did get pregnant. This is more common than you think. In addition, ectopic pregnancies happen more often than you think, and if they are not terminated, they can (and I think will be) fatal to both pregnant person and fetus. Abortion laws restrict the ability of doctors to terminate ectopic pregnancies.

  • Even if you are aware of a medical condition that makes it unsafe for you to be pregnant, contraceptives still fail. Accidents happen, slip-ups happen. Rapes happen.

  • People will still get abortions, but they will be back-alley abortions with sketchy doctors or your best friend with a coat hanger or something similar, and people will die. The women pro-lifers are trying to “empower” will die, and they will be too afraid to seek help when things do eventually go wrong.

  • People in power and people with privilege will still receive abortions. They can afford to travel, take time off, random “vacations” to California to receive abortion care. The people you are punishing are the people that can’t even have a baby in the first place, and restricting/banning abortions just makes life so, so much harder for them. And then the baby will grow up in, at best, a not-great home. Or they’ll end up in the foster system, dumped on a fire stations doorstep, delivered in a bath tip and then murdered and flushed away (yes, this has happened).

I truly believe there is no good-faith argument in favor of restricting/banning abortion. If you don’t like them, don’t get one. But don’t hurt people that don’t believe as you do just because your religion says so. It’s shitty.

Afterthought edit: if you are pro-life, I encourage you to search out and read the stories of clinic workers, patients, and children whose parents wanted an abortion. There’s a Twitter thread that gives specific examples of people who have sought abortions and it’s very moving, if someone has the link I’d appreciate it.

63

u/ironyandgum Dec 03 '21

I fell pregnant in my early 20s, when I was still in college. The reality of it is that having my child put serious pressure on my progress- financially especially. The dad is long gone and I was left as a single mom who hadn't begun a career yet fending for a baby. I am incredibly privileged to have had family that could help out with rent, childcare, health care etc. It took more than 5 years to really "get on my feet" even though I'm still very much behind my peers who worked, got married and only then had kids. I adore my kid, but even though I wasnt a teen, it still changed my life and not only in good ways. My life would have been much easier if I had chosen myself over my unborn. I totally understand the perspective of "teen pregnancy suicide."

→ More replies

48

u/SnarkySparkyIBEW332 Dec 03 '21

Maybe 1 out of 100 "pro-life" people are actually, truly pro life. The other 99 want to do everything humanly possible to make people more likely to get an abortion, but make it illegal to do so. For one example, free and widely accessible birth control would stop more abortions than all of the legislation in the world. But that doesn't punish anyone so they don't give a fuck about it.

→ More replies

97

u/StrongChemical Dec 03 '21

Absolutely. I would have done the same in high school.

100

u/quarantindirectorino Dec 03 '21

Several girls my age (31) have stories of their high school abortions, ie getting their boyfriends to punch them in the stomach or throwing themselves down stairs.

48

u/anorangeandwhitecat Dec 03 '21

I knew a girl when I was in a TTI facility who had a sexual relationship with her stepbrother (in hindsight it was probably grooming) and she got pregnant and took a ton of Plan Bs to try to abort the baby. Since plan B isn’t an abortive I’m pretty sure she miscarried, but yeah it’s serious shit.

→ More replies
→ More replies
→ More replies
→ More replies

4.1k

u/[deleted] Dec 02 '21 Silver Gold

[deleted]

1.6k

u/tundey_1 Dec 02 '21

When you say woman, it's really going to be poor and non-rich women for the most part. 'Cos the rich ones or those pregnant for rich guys will fly to NY, Chicago and other places to get their D & C done and be back in town without missing a beat. But poor women? They are going to die.

496

u/forthewatch39 Dec 02 '21

Not if their states start passing laws that will punish them when they return. How many women are going to be able to upend their whole lives for an abortion? Only the wealthy will be allowed to escape, middle class women who can afford to go to another state for a weekend, but not leave their states permanently will be stuck just as well. I don’t have faith that the Supreme Court will protect states rights in this instance.

382

u/tundey_1 Dec 02 '21

Not if their states start passing laws that will punish them when they return.

How will they know? Women of means (rich + middle class) have been doing this for years before Roe v Wade. I agree with the rest of your comment though.

→ More replies
→ More replies
→ More replies
→ More replies

13.2k

u/Kevin-W Dec 02 '21 Silver Gold Helpful Wholesome All-Seeing Upvote Bravo! This Eureka!
  • Both sides will give their reactions. The pro-life side will celebrate while the pro-choice side will protest.

  • The Supreme Court is further de-legitimized and becomes even more unpopular as they are viewed as partisan and non-neutral given the 6-3 conservative majority.

  • There will be a massive backlash as people do not take kindly to their rights being taken away. Dozens of women will run for office in the 2022 midterm elections promising to put abortion rights back in place. Abortion now becomes the biggest issue in the 2022 midterm elections.

  • Non-profit groups are formed helping women cross state lines to get an abortion or to help cover legal fees of those who get prosecuted under states that ban abortion Post-Roe.

  • News stories come out showing women getting unsafe abortions or those risking their lives/dying trying to get one.

  • A major scandal comes out showing prominent pro-life figure or politician sneaking to get an abortion even though it's illegal and they claim to be against it.

4.6k

u/huskeya4 Dec 02 '21 Take My Energy

Don’t forget the amount of babies abandoned legally under the baby Moses law will skyrocket, stressing the already underfunded and unsafe foster care systems across the nation. All fifty states have baby Moses laws so as long as the infants are abandoned safely in a healthy manor at churches and fire departments, the mothers will not face criminal charges.

2.7k

u/SuperDoofusParade Dec 02 '21

Well, according to Amy Coney Barrett the existence of those laws means it’s not problem if someone gets pregnant and is forced to give birth. They just drop off the baby at the fire department, it’s totally frictionless! Then they just resume their lives like it never happened.

/s just in case but I almost broke my phone when she said that

1.8k

u/Diligent-Sheepherder Dec 03 '21 Take My Energy

And how many of those babies will actually be healthy?

You expect someone who doesn't want to be pregnant and is being forced to give birth to go through that pregnancy the same way someone who wants to baby will? No - they'll drink alcohol and caffeine and eat whatever they want. Why should they care about it if nobody cares about them?

111

u/the_river_nihil Dec 03 '21

Shit, I wish I hadn't been reminded about this, but when I was in highschool a girl intentionally overdosed on drugs to terminate a pregnancy. She lived, fetus didn't, mission accomplished - but my god it made me realize that if abortion isn't affordable then people will go DIY about it.

20

u/valiantdistraction Dec 03 '21

People already are. Enough states have made it difficult to access that DIY abortions, mostly using herbal supplements, have been happening for years (and they never stopped in poor communities, really). You can even see in some drugstores herbal supplements "to bring on menses" or "to induce contractions," and everyone knows what those mean. Sometimes you can see really worrying Amazon reviews that get taken down periodically.

→ More replies

85

u/BlockWide Dec 03 '21 edited Dec 03 '21

It’s not even just that. Abortions aren’t just about not wanting to have a child. Many are serious medical procedures necessary to save a mother’s life after a miscarriage or ectopic pregnancy. Often times the fetus is dead. Other times the fetus is so deformed that it can’t possibly live for long, like when a brain doesn’t develop, so it’s kinder for all involved. Imagine having to carry a dead body to term. Imagine watching your wife carry your dead child around for months. This is why abortion is a human right.

823

u/Evaleenora Dec 03 '21

That is an excellent point that I have not thought about. And I really think you’re right. Nothing good will come from this. How many people that say, ‘but think of the babies!’ will actually adopt one? Especially if the child has medical issues. Unfortunately, they will more than likely end up in the system. And the same people that ‘fought’ for their lives will complain about the governmental funding they’re using up.

213

u/fungibat_ Dec 03 '21

Exactly. The foster care system is notoriously unkind to all kids, but those with special needs undoubtedly suffer the most. They don't have any of the resources they need and are susceptible to abuse because many can't speak out.

I remember being in a foster shelter and there was a little girl probably 6-7 years old. She didn't talk at all and I never saw her playing with toys. She spent all night screaming and throwing shit. Sometimes literally throwing her own shit. As frustrating it was to deal with, it was a thousand times more depressing.

So whatever potential a kid has to succeed, the foster system will extinguish. It's literally putting kids in prison for just existing and then throwing them out into the world with zero skills.

I REALLY wish all these dumb people got a small taste of the horrors within the foster care system.

29

u/EstarriolStormhawk Dec 03 '21

My mother had never spoken about her brief time in foster care, ever. She mentioned the fact that she spent a brief time there to me once and never to either of my siblings. She has never discussed details. She is a neurologically and physically healthy person. As were her siblings.

Foster care is not the option. Even if we ignore the suffering of the individual forced to give birth.

→ More replies

67

u/Livid-Rutabaga Dec 03 '21

They will do what they always do, "think of the babies" and they will dump them on the state and charity agencies. They will then complain about the financial burden on the system. But not one of them will step up.

64

u/MadameBurner Dec 03 '21

Exactly this.

My friend did foster-to-adopt. It took over a year for them to get approval but once they did, they were quickly placed with their two daughters who had been in foster care their entire lives and were "hard to adopt" because many people didn't want to adopt a black baby with developmental delays. So when people say "so many parents would love to adopt" they mean "adopt a perfectly healthy, lily-white newborn."

33

u/thebestredkeen Dec 03 '21

I went to lunch with my son a couple weekends ago and we were seated next to a party where several were wearing t-shirts for an adoption organization. Googled the org and apparently they try to place kids from 9-17 out of foster care. There were several bios of kids they were working for, and they were there too. One boy who I'd read about turned to my son and I and said "Hi" with the brightest smile - I wish I had the fortitude to care for a special needs kiddo. It's going to be a complete disaster once Roe is abolished.

→ More replies

16

u/not_SCROTUS Dec 03 '21

They don't say "think of the babies" they don't give a shit about the babies. They literally only care about "the unborn" and as soon as you're out of the uterus it's you're fucking problem.

→ More replies

174

u/badassjeweler Dec 03 '21

Exactly this. There will be an influx of surrendered children too. Then once they see how much it will burden the current system, they will take away any options to anonymously surrender and circle back to blaming the woman.

→ More replies

158

u/lovelyxcastle Dec 03 '21

Not to mention women who cant afford to be pregnant in the first place, or are in unsafe housing situations, and cant make it to doctors appointments, afford prenatal care, ect.

49

u/stilldebugging Dec 03 '21

Or the women who are currently seeking abortions due to new or worsening domestic violence that started when they became pregnant. Because that is a thing.

123

u/FabianFox Dec 03 '21

I’ve also wondered-if a mother doesn’t want a baby, and doesn’t want the insane costs associated with giving birth in a hospital, I envision more women resorting to giving birth at home and in bathrooms. This is dangerous for women and babies and just such a sad situation. These crazy pro-lifers should have to pay for all of the prenatal visits and delivers these women will be forced to have.

72

u/quarantindirectorino Dec 03 '21

If a woman doesn’t want a baby and doesn’t want insane hospital bills, she’s not going to go through with nine months of torture and then basically attempt suicide with a home birth without medical intervention, she’s going to abort that thing herself, dangerously.

18

u/Zombie_Carl Dec 03 '21

So many horrible new things to think about in this thread!

Of course the cost of raising a child is a factor for women who choose to terminate their pregnancies, but I had not considered the very first bill, which is the one the hospital sends after the birth.

I have three kids, and after the first two were born safely and quickly in the hospital, I chose to have my third at home. It was MUCH cheaper, but still cost about 2 grand to cover midwife and prenatal. And you have to pay for the birth supplies the midwives don’t provide. This is without any complications or medication for me or the baby (I chose not to use pain meds or induction drugs).

I cannot imagine covering a midwife or hospital bill if we didn’t have a two-income household. Our healthcare system is insane and women are damned if they do, damned if they don’t.

580

u/SuperDoofusParade Dec 03 '21

Why should they care about it if nobody cares about them?

Excellent point

26

u/Old_Gnarled_Oak Dec 03 '21

They'll most likely skip expensive prenatal doctor appointments also since the woman will already be hit with expenses due to the unwanted pregnancy.

29

u/threadsoffate2021 Dec 03 '21

Yep. Will be a dramatic increase in suicides, too.

→ More replies

689

u/maryet26 Dec 03 '21

Can you imagine how old that conversation would get after 9 months of unwillingly carrying a baby to term? "oh when are you due?! You must be so excited!" etc. Exhausting. Can be traumatizing, honestly.

385

u/SuperDoofusParade Dec 03 '21

And I don’t care what anyone says, once they say they gave the baby up for adoption there’s going to be gossip or downright shunning.

268

u/CarolynDesign Dec 03 '21

Especially if you're already a parent; a lot of women who seek abortions already have other children. Can you imagine how horribly people would treat you?

It'd be easier to claim you're a surrogate parent in that case, but women shouldn't be forced to lie to maintain basic dignity.

120

u/Tasty-Job-5682 Dec 03 '21

60% of abortions are chosen by women who already have children. They already know exactly what childbirth and childcare entails, and that they cannot handle any more of it. It is unbelievably stupid for us to test them as if we know better when its little kids who will pay the price with their suffering if we are wrong about what's best for families we have never met. https://www.fatherly.com/love-money/who-gets-abortions-mothers/

28

u/CrowVsWade Dec 03 '21

Most women who get abortions in the USA today are already mothers. That's a well established statistic.

→ More replies
→ More replies
→ More replies

14

u/themoistowlette Dec 03 '21 Silver

The craziest thing to me is that the argument is always about the baby. Don't want the baby? Give it away! Problem solved! Like Barrett and that AG from Mississippi and all these dumb fucks.

That's not the problem if you don't want to be pregnant and deliver. I don't want to go through nine months of hell (again) where my body undergoes changes, some of which are permenant, that make me uncomfortable, tired, nauseated, higher risk of dying from a myriad of infectious diseases (including COVID) and then culminating in Labor and Delivery where I'm at risk of being maimed or killed by the process of birth or undergo emergency abdominal surgery.

The maternal mortality rate in the US is 20.1 per 100,000 live births. The mortality rate if abortions is .6 per 100,000 procedures.

I got kids, man. People depend on me. I'd die for my kids, but I'll also live for my kids and the safest option is pretty clear.

→ More replies
→ More replies

644

u/[deleted] Dec 02 '21 edited Dec 12 '21

[deleted]

39

u/fadka21 Dec 03 '21

Nixon wouldn’t have resigned in today’s day and age.

And that’s exactly why Roger Ailes created Fox News. To make sure nothing like what happened to his boss would ever happen to a conservative again. The man was utterly despicable on so many levels, but give credit where it’s due…he succeeded.

→ More replies
→ More replies

519

u/maryet26 Dec 03 '21

Add to this list the absolutely horrific consequences for people who want to keep their pregnancy, but would need to end it for medical reasons. People don't think about the mental and physical trauma of being forced to give birth to a dead baby, or a baby that will surely die in a matter of hours or days. Not to mention those who need miscarriage management who might not be able to get it if a "fetal heartbeat" is still present.

Abortion is health care, period.

157

u/Opus_723 Dec 03 '21

At least one woman in a red state is going to die horribly, that's how abortion got legalized in Ireland.

→ More replies
→ More replies

393

u/Enk1ndle Dec 02 '21

Dozens of women will run for office in the 2022 midterm elections promising to put abortion rights back in place.

This is an interesting one to me. Doing this now before the 2022 elections would be a great way to shift things left instead of right like they're looking.

I do want to believe that we would be able to eventually get it federally legal again, but I would much rather not have to in the first place.

→ More replies
→ More replies

10.5k

u/ukbdacan1956 Dec 03 '21 Silver Gold Helpful Wholesome Take My Energy Bravo! Starry Ally Heartwarming

Whenever I see a discussion over abortion rights in the USA, it reminds me of this great piece of writing.

A statement from a Christian Minister about the Roe vs Wade issue:

“The Unborn” are a convenient group of people to advocate for. They never make demands of you; they are morally uncomplicated, unlike the incarcerated, addicted, or the chronically poor. They don’t resent your condescension; or complain that you are not politically correct; unlike widows they don’t ask you to question the patriarchy; unlike orphans; they don’t require money, education or childcare, unlike aliens, they don’t bring all of that racial, cultural and religious baggage that you dislike, they allow you to feel good about yourself without any work at creating or maintaining relationships; and when they are born you can forget about them, because they cease to be unborn......you can love the unborn and advocate for them without substantially challenging your own wealth, power or privilege, without re-imagining social structures, apologizing or making reparations to anyone. They are, in short, the perfect people to love, if you want to claim you love Jesus but actually dislike people who breathe.

Prisoners? Immigrants? The Sick? The Poor? Widows? Orphans? All the groups who are specifically mentioned in the Bible. They all get thrown under the bus for the Unborn.” - David Barnhart

170

u/trex_on_cocaine Dec 03 '21

Fuck me that was a CHRISTIAN MINISTER that said that??

60

u/baseketball Dec 03 '21

Is there anything in the Bible that explicitly says abortion is a sin?

96

u/bcheds Dec 03 '21

Short answer: No.

Longer answer: No, there is no direct mention of abortion in the Bible, but some theologians think a few verses might elude to it. Deuteronomy 30:19 and Psalm 139 are possibly anti-abortion, and Exodus 21 might have some pro-choice rhetoric, but it's all up to interpretation.

→ More replies
→ More replies
→ More replies
→ More replies

19

u/Masturb8ionIsASin Dec 02 '21

Idk what'll happen to the country as a whole but I'll for sure leave!! I'm not even a woman but if it's overturned it officially means we're making law based on religion and I'm not down to sit and watch while the republicans turn this country into a right-wing evangelical shithole and the democrats do nothing to stop it. I'll just go somewhere progressive that doesn't have Jesus firmly planted in it's ass.

→ More replies

7.8k

u/Illustrious-Gas-9766 Dec 02 '21

It will affect poor people the most. Middle class people will still be able to other states.

Perhaps condom sales will skyrocket.

5.9k

u/Write_What_I_Like Dec 02 '21 Silver

condom sales will skyrocket

Pretty sure that absolutely will not happen. People will fuck just like they always have but the consequence from not wearing a condom will be much higher. Still, people will keep right on fuckin without protection.

2.7k

u/minneapple79 Dec 02 '21 All-Seeing Upvote

It would help if these states promoted comprehensive sex education. But no, we can't have our kids learning about birth control in schools! Keep them stupid and pregnant!

1.5k

u/JimTheJerseyGuy Dec 02 '21

Honestly, this has been a pet peeve of mine for decades when discussing abortion. If you want to have an honest discussion about the legality or the morality of abortion, that’s fine, let’s do that. Maybe we will allow it or maybe we’ll ban it. But first, why doesn’t everyone have free, universal access to the contraception options of their choosing? Why isn’t sexual education (that doesn’t teach abstinence) a requirement (no exceptions, religious or otherwise) for all children? The fact that none of those things is happening is proof that any restrictions on abortion are nothing more than about control.

1.3k

u/minneapple79 Dec 02 '21 Silver Gold

Exactly. Also. You want to outlaw abortion? Then make sure you have a safety net for low-income families. Support programs like low-cost or free daycare. Help young mothers and fathers get jobs or an education so they can support their children. Make sure they have access to formula and food and diapers and doctors. A child is important when it comes out of the womb, not just when it's a fetus.

634

u/Stephenie_Dedalus Dec 02 '21 Helpful

They don’t do this because miserable poor people make a controllable cheap labor force.

→ More replies
→ More replies

246

u/ThinkThink23 Dec 02 '21

I've thought for a while now that the goal both sides should have is to limit the number of unwanted pregnancies as much as possible. That will decrease the number of abortions making the right happy, and decrease the drive to make abortions illegal making the left happy.

Better access to birth control, better sex ed. Attack the root of the problem. Making abortions illegal will only hurt young mothers living in poverty.

269

u/duffbeerformeee Dec 02 '21

Even when everyone has access to birth control, women have abortions for health related reasons. The idea of eliminating abortion just limits access to safe healthcare for women. Pregnancy is risky and sometimes pregnancies go wrong. Abortion access is necessary to protect the lives of women.

→ More replies
→ More replies

125

u/armored_cat Dec 02 '21

"Sex is sin" is also prevalent in many communities and think anything promoting safe sex is encouraging sex.

It's a stupid argument that falls apart if you try it on anything else, like fire extinguishers or fire safety training.

→ More replies
→ More replies

374

u/Snoo74401 Dec 02 '21

I forget which state it was, but for a while they had comprehensive sex education in school, to the point of teaching safe sex. Guess what? Teen pregnancies went down.

Then they changed the messaging to abstinence-only. Guess what? Teen pregnancies went up.

402

u/CrankyCashew Dec 02 '21

Colorado also did a program where IUDs and the pill were made more accessible for teens and low cost. . What do you know: huge decrease in teenage births and abortions. And it saved the state a ton of money.

You don’t want abortions? Education. It’s not about the abortion. It’s about controlling other people to feel superior and righteous. Dark times ahead.

→ More replies
→ More replies
→ More replies
→ More replies

296

u/HippoKingOfOld Dec 02 '21

Perhaps condom sales will skyrocket.

Nah. People are generally not that forward thinking.

→ More replies

215

u/ringobob Dec 02 '21

People aren't not using condoms because abortions are available. Nobody really wants to have an abortion. If they aren't using condoms today, they won't if things change, either.

→ More replies
→ More replies

546

u/aeschinder Dec 02 '21

Black market abortifacients will become widely available. One-stop shopping for weed, meth, blow and now RU486.

→ More replies

16.2k

u/ChokeOnMySausage Dec 02 '21 Helpful Wholesome This

The return of unwanted children and subsequent explosion of crime 16-20 years later.

4.6k

u/[deleted] Dec 02 '21

Sums it up nicely, except 16-20 years is generous. It'll happen far sooner.

2.6k

u/GhostOfWilson Dec 02 '21

I think it will be a slow burn. Crime will gently rise in the short term as more and more new parents experience financial hardship and general stress. As more kids reach maturity after being raised in poverty or situations where they were unwanted, we'll really see it start to kick up.

1.0k

u/Jay-Dee-British Dec 02 '21

Maybe ask the French aristocracy how keeping their 'poor class' starving and downtrodden worked out for them. Oh.. wait..

→ More replies
→ More replies

756

u/socialistrob Dec 02 '21

16-20 seems about right to me. Roe V Wade was 1973 and the murder rate didn’t really drop significantly until around 1990 and since then it’s been relatively low compared to past levels. While certainly not all of it can be contributed to lack of lack of abortion prior to 1973 I would imagine that it certainly made a difference. About 17 years after Roe v Wade crimes across the country started dropping quickly.

1.1k

u/SeantotheRescue Dec 02 '21 edited Dec 02 '21 All-Seeing Upvote

Freakonomics did a deep dive on this and compared crime rates in counties states that legalized abortion in the months/years ahead of RoeVWade and saw a consistent drop in crime 16 years after each respective law was passed.

So while not 100%, it is an extremely strong correlation.

136

u/Polymath_Father Dec 02 '21

The removal of lead from gasoline around the same time certainly didn't hurt either. I've wondered if the corresponding drop in teen pregnancies and sexual activity is related to younger generations having better impulse control?

→ More replies

225

u/hartemis Dec 02 '21

I think it was states, not counties. Maybe California, Oregon and Washington were the ones who legalized abortion about 3 years before the rest of the country and they saw a dip in crime about 3 years before the rest of the country. Some of the “tough on crime” bills played a role but what the GOP likes to ignore is the impact that abortion had as well.

→ More replies
→ More replies

43

u/DemandCommonSense Dec 02 '21

The 3 things that largely get credited for the drop in crime in the early '90s:

  • Roe v Wade

  • Leaded gas being dropped

  • Increases in economic prosperity and reductions in poverty

→ More replies

209

u/Banzai51 Dec 02 '21

That timeframe also includes the lead bans.

116

u/Oops_I_Cracked Dec 02 '21

Yes, both contributed. In the US the two happened at the same time but there were other countries where they happened further apart. Both things impact crime rate.

→ More replies
→ More replies
→ More replies
→ More replies
→ More replies

14.5k

u/asdf072 Dec 02 '21 edited Dec 03 '21 Silver Gold Platinum Helpful Wholesome Take My Energy

There were studies correlating the effect of Roe vs Wade on crime rates. Some people think it was the single greatest factor in decreasing the crime rate through the past decades. Making abortion illegal puts all kinds of stress on society by forcing the mothers who are unprepared or too young, into a life of poverty. All for the sake of puritanical self-righteousness for people who carry none of the burden.

---

Late Edit: If I could just add, I'm not "pro-abortion." (If that even exists.) I can only imagine what a traumatic experience that procedure would be, physically and emotionally. It’s a horrifically compromised solution. What’s the answer? Better contraception programs. We have free contraceptives at colleges, but it’s usually limited to condoms. We need female-controlled contraceptives available for free. Free as in cost, and free as in no stipulations. No questions asked. Ever. Unfortunately, the same crowd who swears the issue is about protecting lives (and not sanctimonious validation), is usually the one who rallies hardest against anything of the sort.

3.6k

u/MentORPHEUS Dec 02 '21

There were studies correlating the effect of Roe vs Wade on crime rates.

That, and systematic reduction of human lead exposure largely via paint and gasoline.

"The Fonz" was retconned as a "cool" character in the 70s show Happy Days. Truth is, those stereotypical '50s hoodla hanging outside the liquor store in leather jackets weren't antisocial because they had insights everyone else didn't. They were antisocial because they were raised as the least wanted children in the population, then had their cognition and impulse control badly damaged on top of what already results from growing up as a living embodiment of regret.

1.4k

u/knock-off-pale Dec 02 '21

I've never heard the plural of hoodlum as "hoodla" thank you for that

→ More replies

104

u/shouldbebabysitting Dec 03 '21

Freakonomics, the book and movie covered this. They looked into correlations like lead, abortion, and "tough on crime" politicians.

Lead was an immediate nationwide ban yet the crime rate changed state by state based on the date a state legalized abortion. (Many states legalized years before roe v Wade. Some states dragged out legalizing even after roe v Wade.)

→ More replies
→ More replies

434

u/iostream64 Dec 02 '21 edited Dec 02 '21

I'm surprised there's not a more concrete causal link. It is very well observable that when children grow up in broken homes they are far more likely to have poor grades - And are then guaranteed to be stuck in low wage positions And there is already pretty strong causal link between crime and poverty

306

u/SierraPapaHotel Dec 02 '21

It's kinda hard to prove causality when you can't control the variables. A strong correlation is the best you'll get without some extremely unethical Truman Show-esque experiments

→ More replies

30

u/Oops_I_Cracked Dec 02 '21

Part of it is that the two biggest impactors we've discovered both shifted around the same time, lead exposure and abortion. It makes it hard to sus out which is responsible for what.

→ More replies
→ More replies
→ More replies

29.7k

u/CumboxMold Dec 02 '21 Silver Gold Helpful Starry This

Nothing will change for people who can afford to travel to states/countries where it is legal. Business as usual. But for those that can't... more poverty. More unwanted kids who grow up in poverty and possibly abused and neglected.

9.3k

u/BlackLetterLies Dec 02 '21 All-Seeing Upvote

Especially in places like Mississippi where they're trying to pass the law that lead to us discussing Roe v. Wade. Their welfare consumption is already high, and it is likely going to skyrocket the state into bankruptcy. It's just more bad news for the citizens of the worst state in the country.

4.0k

u/TheDrunkScientist Dec 02 '21

I'm from Louisiana and honestly, there's not much farther we can fall.

Not that I want to test that theory.

768

u/PrivateRedditUser224 Dec 02 '21

As someone who grew up in venezuela, we used to say the same thing back in the mid 2000s. Things can get worse than anyone could imagine given the right conditions.

Hopefully we do not get to find out how bad things can get here

616

u/machinegunkisses Dec 02 '21

Reminds me of a joke from the Soviet Union: "We thought we hit rock bottom, then we heard someone banging on the ceiling from below."

110

u/kinguzumaki Dec 02 '21

I really like this although it is having the opposite effect of a joke on me :(

→ More replies

33

u/theoutlet Dec 03 '21

Sayings from Eastern Europe are usually incredibly insightful in a melancholic way

→ More replies
→ More replies

3.9k

u/twodickhenry Dec 02 '21

Women dying in back alley abortions, more children born into poverty and/or a broken foster/adoption system, plummeting literacy and education rates, skyrocketing healthcare debt and destitution.

There is always further to fall.

1.8k

u/Personage1 Dec 02 '21

Don't forget this hurts women who want children.

If they can't get an abortion, then if a medical emergency comes up where they need to get the fetus out, they won't be able to. Trying to have children becomes more dangerous.

468

u/davidfeuer Dec 02 '21

Continuing certain non-viable pregnancies can also put the pregnant person's future fertility at risk. They may need an emergency hysterectomy instead of an orderly abortion.

→ More replies

492

u/Scudamore Dec 02 '21

A woman in Texas who suffered a miscarriage went through that. Because of the laws there doctors weren't permitted to induce labor. Instead of a faster procedure to bring a bad situation to an end, the miscarriage dragged out for days.

Interference with what should be a private medical choice leads to nightmares like that, but conservatives don't care.

267

u/Mundane-Currency5088 Dec 02 '21

Not to mention these laws often have medically impossible things in them. One law had a stipulation that women could transfer the fetus to another woman which isn't possible. I don't think that law passed though.

331

u/Dangernj Dec 02 '21

They were insistent that ectopic pregnancies be implanted in the uterus, which is science that doesn’t currently exist.

181

u/kiwichick286 Dec 02 '21

This is rage inducing to me. If you don't know anything about a topic, then how the fuck can you legislate for or against it?? The lack of education at the political level is astounding!

22

u/NotTheGreatPumpkin Dec 03 '21

It has nothing to do with knowledge. The anti-abortion crowd has spent the last 50 years throwing any law they can manage at the wall to see what would stick. The goal was always to hamper abortions further and further until it was effectively impossible regardless of actual legality. Intentionally requiring a medical practice that wasn't possible? Totally in line with that strategy.

edit: And yeah, I recognize that probably won't lessen your rage :(

85

u/toodlesandpoodles Dec 02 '21

As if understanding has anything to do with most conservative positions.

→ More replies
→ More replies
→ More replies

61

u/bppcamaro Dec 02 '21

Sounds like writers of that law got their medical information where all great thinkers get medical information... from Deep Space 9!

→ More replies
→ More replies
→ More replies

90

u/mrblacklabel71 Dec 02 '21

And the birth rate in the US continues to plummet. I think we will see a massive uptick in men getting vasectomies.

24

u/Your_Local_Stray_Cat Dec 03 '21

And more women deciding to outright get their tubes tied. If someone was on the fence about it before, making sure there's no way out of a bad pregnancy isn't going to make someone want to have kids.

→ More replies
→ More replies

1.3k

u/LongStories_net Dec 02 '21

And it can even hurt the child.

My family member had to get an abortion when she found out the baby, if born, would only live a few days and be in the most unimaginable pain the entire time.

Apparently, the religious right thinks that baby should suffer pain we can’t even begin to comprehend because… I guess… God wanted it to suffer.

739

u/Necromartian Dec 02 '21

If god opposed abortions, he probably would stop little girls being raped.

524

u/waxillium_ladrian Dec 02 '21 Take My Energy

But then how would Matt Gaetz spend his weekends?

212

u/LaughableIKR Dec 02 '21

Hopefully the same way Jeffery Epstein spent his time in jail.

326

u/ZombieAppetizer Dec 02 '21 Silver hehehehe Giggle

Just hanging around?

→ More replies
→ More replies
→ More replies
→ More replies
→ More replies

446

u/nipplequeefs Dec 02 '21 edited Dec 02 '21

Yep, look up Romania’s Lost Generation. There you’ll learn the consequences of a society that banned abortion, made divorce nearly impossible, incentivized childbirth, and punished childlessness.

Reddit won’t let me attach a hyperlink because it keeps telling me the URL is invalid, so here’s a source:

https://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/allinthemind/inside-the-iron-curtain’s-orphanages/5543388

380

u/googleroneday Dec 02 '21

"There was so many of us,’ he says. ‘We’d have breakfast and then we were put into a clean room and all we did was rock back and forth. Some cried and some hit themselves. Some were put into straightjackets to prevent them from doing that. After lunch [it was the] same thing; you get cleaned up, you get put into a clean room and rock back and forth and hit yourself or [you were put in a] straight jacket if you misbehaved. For those that continued to misbehave, they were drugged and that’s what kept them sleeping and quiet."

Maybe Amy Coney barret should read what happens when children are callously put up for adoption .

237

u/Dangernj Dec 02 '21

Have you read about how she talks about her adopted children vs her biological children? She knows.

64

u/googleroneday Dec 02 '21

No what does she say ?

302

u/Dangernj Dec 02 '21

It was during her confirmation speech, she described her biological children in terms of their amazing talents and accomplishments and noted her adopted children by describing how much better their lives are now that they live with her.

178

u/The_Original_Gronkie Dec 02 '21

She splits her children into the good ones who are learning to be charitable, and the ones who are the pathetic recipients of their charity.

That won't leave a mental scar at all. /S

→ More replies

114

u/King_Air Dec 02 '21

Gross.

19

u/Zeeky47 Dec 03 '21

That was so twisted when she said that, all I could think of was either the kids felt terrible or were groomed to believe that was a good comparison.

→ More replies
→ More replies
→ More replies

107

u/SnArL817 Dec 02 '21

So, I remember when Ceaușescu was overthrown and executed, and American reporters went in and reported on the asylums and the absolutely disgusting conditions the people were living in. I very vividly remember the recording of the song they were singing about being free of Ceaușescu's reign. Of course the reporting was slanted toward "Look at the horrors of Communism" but the truth is never so simple. ANY totalitarian society will become like this...it's so ironic that the people most likely to brag about "Muh Freedoms!" are all for giving the government control over private medical decisions.

→ More replies
→ More replies

782

u/cvn74em Dec 02 '21

More women killed by men who don’t wanna be fathers.

300

u/[deleted] Dec 02 '21 edited Dec 19 '21 Tree Hug

[deleted]

90

u/cvn74em Dec 02 '21

My BFF just left a man who deliberately created two kids so she wouldn’t leave him. I’m a lesbian, but I’m also a realist who watches the news and listens to my female friends. She actually resorted to the other hole because it was a way to prevent him from doing that again. Except it didn’t, he’d simply shove it in and do it again. He was such a controlling, jealous, insecure bastard who actually used pregnancy as a control mechanism.

But other men freak out and kill her.

76

u/MadameBurner Dec 03 '21

My friend is an L&D nurse and has had women who just had a baby beg her for Norplanon or depo because she knows that as soon as she gets home (if not in the hospital), her husband is going to try to force her to have sex. She's had women come in with serious infections and injuries because their husbands just had to have sex before the 4-6 week mark.

These men DGAF that it could harm their wife or their child, they just want control. Rusty Yates is a great example of this.

27

u/cvn74em Dec 03 '21

Yeh. They don’t understand — despite the doctor telling them — that women simply can’t do it. It’s disgusting. But we know their needs are always elevated above the needs of women. Wants? They don’t even care about those.

→ More replies

18

u/cvn74em Dec 02 '21

I’m also so glad you got away from him and that you’re happy and safe now!!!!

→ More replies
→ More replies

114

u/PeanutsSnoopy Dec 02 '21

Oh I forgot about that too. Yeah, homicide is one of the main causes of death for pregnant women. Now that they know they cannot even talk to their girlfriend about an abortion, they will just murder her. Sad.

15

u/Mysterious_Fact_2285 Dec 03 '21

As far as I know it is literally THE main cause. 20% of deaths during pregnancy are homicide, mostly domestic violence. An enormous shame on our country

→ More replies
→ More replies

2.7k

u/DemocraticRepublic Dec 02 '21 edited Dec 02 '21 Silver Helpful Bravo! Rocket Like

One of the most disgusting things is these laws don't even have exceptions for rape or incest. So pre-teen girls raped by abusive relatives will be required to bring any resulting children to term, even with very high chances of birth defects.

Vote against Republicans people. In every election.

→ More replies
→ More replies
→ More replies

272

u/tundey_1 Dec 02 '21

All of Mississippi's numbers regarding sanctity of life are at the bottom of the list.

180

u/sephirothFFVII Dec 02 '21 edited Dec 03 '21

God that 'worst state' reddit thread from a few months ago

Edit: link -https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/p360eo/what_is_the_worst_us_state_and_why

85

u/help1155 Dec 02 '21

Man I still remember it Reddit never agrees on anything but that thread was Unanimous

19

u/sephirothFFVII Dec 02 '21

I had asked what the second worst state was on askreddit, was accused of being a low effort karma whore, and lost a lot of my fake internet points.

Would love to see that question answered though

→ More replies

98

u/atalders Dec 02 '21

Lol I remember that - I figured there would be a little variety but Mississippi got trucked

→ More replies
→ More replies
→ More replies
→ More replies

1.0k

u/in_finite_space Dec 02 '21

More back alley abortions and women dying.

640

u/beepborpimajorp Dec 02 '21

And likely more infanticide as well. Teens (and some adults) backed into a corner not knowing what to do and not having fully developed brains are prone to making bad choices when they know nobody around them is going to support them.

337

u/Inevitable-tragedy Dec 02 '21

This is never acknowledged enough. Its always swept under the rug how teens have zero support but are expected to act like a 25 year old that has a stable income and childcare. Instead they're trapped with their own parents abusing and mangling them and expecting them to finish school while also never offering to help with the baby. Then the nation is surprised, horrified, and outraged when teen parents resort to extreme actions.

Ignore the problems but surprised when the bomb explodes???

67

u/whosthemotherflippin Dec 02 '21

I was researching our local “poor man’s cemetery” recently. The number of dead babies found in ditches in the early 1900’s was disturbing.

50

u/Kuramhan Dec 03 '21

but are expected to act like a 25 year old that has a stable income and childcare

That in itself is a rather rare sight these days. Most 25 year olds would be lucky to have a stable enough income to support themselves, let alone childcare.

119

u/SlowRollingBoil Dec 02 '21

Conservatives think they score a goal when they ban abortions. Because they never pay attention to statistics about quality of life for anyone already born.

They're against universal healthcare so that those Moms can afford to have the kid and get prenatal care. They're against universal paid family leave so they can afford to spend time during the most important time of the infant's life. They're against universal pre-K which sets up a child for life.

85

u/Yrcrazypa Dec 02 '21

Here's the thing. They don't care. They want to enrich themselves, that's it.

→ More replies
→ More replies

27

u/The_Cinnabomber Dec 03 '21

I’m 28 and I still don’t have a stable enough income for kids. This country is so fucked

→ More replies
→ More replies
→ More replies

3.9k

u/NewsboyHank Dec 02 '21

Back room abortions, dead women, abandoned children, increased poverty, day trips to Canada

1.3k

u/Dependent-Cow7823 Dec 02 '21

Wasn't this essentially what was happening before Roe v. Wade? It was about women safety instead politics.

→ More replies

514

u/SuchLovelyLilacs Dec 02 '21 edited Dec 02 '21

I asked my mom what life was like pre Roe v Wade (I was born 2 months after abortion became legal in the US).

Short story, she said those women who had money and connections still were able to easily get safe abortions. Those who didn't went the back alley route, with varying results. :-(

She lived in a smallish suburb outside NYC at the time and there was a medical practice in the town where she lived that was 2 OBGYN. One of them delivered me, the other one was known as, in whispered tones, "The Abortion King." It was a well known secret that he performed abortions upon demand and regularly in office. For $700 (a LOT of money back in the early 70's when this was happening - almost $5K in today's dollars), he would give a "D&C" to any woman who asked for one. The authorities were aware of it, but just ignored it. All parties were consenting and it was going on "behind closed doors" so to speak. I think most of them with any lick of sense would rather have an experienced OBGYN performing these procedures in a well-equipped medical office rather than dealing with the aftermath of the alternative.

315

u/PuffinChaos Dec 02 '21

That would never fly these days though. Some Karen would report the doctor or post all over social media, which would snowball into a religious and/or political fight.

433

u/chickenLike Dec 02 '21

The Karen would do it after safely getting her own abortion.

→ More replies
→ More replies
→ More replies
→ More replies

130

u/phoenix-corn Dec 02 '21

I think of myself at 19. I was starting to have problems with PCOS but I didn't know that, so I'd miss my period for months and just be petrified of being pregnant. I was not allowed to be on birth control because my mother did not allow it. She did not allow me to go to a gyno, and did not allow me to purchase birth control of any kind. She also checked mileage on my car, and if I went places that she didn't approve of would call the police and report it stolen. Meanwhile, my boyfriend had been sexually abused and thought his penis was so tiny that condoms would fall off (not true, not true at all) and so had panic attacks at the thought of using them and wouldn't/couldn't, and I was just fucking stupid and went along with that. There was no accessible planned parenthood, and no doctor near my university that would treat students and especially not one that would give us birth control. When I finally did get a prescription because my cycles kept stopping, the local pharmacy always read my name out and that I was picking up birth control over the store's loud speaker.

And if I had gotten pregnant all of those things would have made an abortion impossible. My mom would have seen to it that I dropped out and had no life. It was what she wanted anyway. My boyfriend would have accused me of cheating, like he did about absolutely everything. I would have been stuck with two abusers for the rest of my life.

So many people have it so much worse, but even women who have it pretty good could be incredibly harmed by making birth control and abortion harder.

→ More replies

4.1k

u/[deleted] Dec 02 '21 edited Dec 03 '21

[deleted]

1.7k

u/Agitated_Ad7576 Dec 02 '21

pills

Everyone is forgetting about the pills, they'll be all over the red states. You can buy them on the street in Mexico.

817

u/W1nd0wPane Dec 02 '21

Yeah but that opens up the risk for bootleg pills which desperate people will end up taking and risking their lives. More than one way to have a “back alley abortion”.

→ More replies

150

u/OozeNAahz Dec 02 '21

Which is to say there are going to be a lot of women and some men tossed into jails.

→ More replies
→ More replies

277

u/DETpatsfan Dec 02 '21

The problem is even a lot of blue states have old abortion bans that were superseded by Roe V Wade. AZ, MI, FL, IA, OH, and WI are all more moderate states with pretty big populations that would have old abortion laws automatically enacted in the event that the precedent is overturned and a lot of them don’t have the numbers in state houses to overturn those laws.

63

u/starcatalyst Dec 02 '21

I can definitely tell you that Iowa is not moderate anymore. They've tried to pass the 6 week ban multiple times in recent years and our governor is actively hoping for Roe v Wade to be overturned.

→ More replies

173

u/nennienerd Dec 02 '21

Yes, this! I live in MI, and our governor is trying to repeal the old law already in place, but our Republican Congress isn't going to let her.

→ More replies
→ More replies

72

u/batcaveroad Dec 02 '21

I can see a crackdown on meds by mail in order to combat illegal abortion pills. A crackdown that would end up hurting a lot of seniors and vets.

→ More replies

22

u/bigmeatyclaws123 Dec 02 '21

Not to mention the murders of women who’s baby’s father does not want them around. Think women who’re mistresses, or abused. Hushing up or stopping a pregnancy is a huge movie in violent crimes against women.

→ More replies

3.7k

u/kalysti Dec 02 '21 edited Dec 03 '21

A lot of women will die from backstreet abortions. Teen pregnancy will go up. Domestic abuse will go up. Poverty will go up. Child abuse will go up. Child crime will go up. More babies abandoned to die or killed by the mother at birth.

Edit: I moved on from this post not long after I made it. I'm glad it generated discussion. However, I just received an inquiry from RedditCareResources saying someone "reached out to them" about me. Now, I don't care what anyone posts in response to my posts, although I prefer replies be civil. But RedditCareResources is a service intended to help those in distress, not something to use to harass others.

Nowhere in any of my posts do I indicate I am in distress in anyway. So the only reason I can think of for someone to "reach out" to RedditCareResources is if they want to harass me because of my opinion. If you are the person who "reached out" and that was your motivation, please don't do that again. You can revile me here in public or in private, but please don't co-op services with serious purposes to whatever agenda you may have.

1.3k

u/anonymous_4_custody Dec 02 '21

I expect a high number of crappy ways to end a pregnancy will be tried. Asking the boyfriend to punch her in the stomach. Throwing herself down some stairs. Getting blackout drunk. Taking poison and hoping it kills the baby but not herself. Or, to put it another way, the things we already know lots of desperate, pregnant people did before Roe V. Wade.

I think abortion is a very difficult thing. I could easily see the argument that a fetus is a person. But we already know that people have access to their own bodies, and they'll just try stuff. There's a special kind of desperation that comes along with an unwanted pregnancy, and desperate people do things they wouldn't normally do. The choice we face isn't between abortion and no abortion. The choice we face is between safe abortions and unsafe abortions.

Also, abortions will totally be available to rich people regardless. We're really talking about making abortion illegal for people without resources.

1.0k

u/prof_the_doom Dec 02 '21 Take My Energy

I could easily see the argument that a fetus is a person.

If the people making that argument actually believed it, the states that want to ban abortion would have the best pre-natal care, the best social support system, and the best foster systems in the country.

They don't, not by a long shot.

311

u/GaeasSon Dec 02 '21

And every orphan in the state would already have been adopted.

→ More replies
→ More replies
→ More replies

266

u/BreeGee999 Dec 02 '21

Let's not forget women leaving the workforce and women getting arrested & jailed for drug addiction.

232

u/BeyondElectricDreams Dec 02 '21

"NoBoDy WaNtS tO wOrK!!!"

You just took out a huge chunk of women from the population, and if you think their neglected children are gonna make good slave labor in 18 years, boy do you not understand how crime works.

74

u/jfarrar19 Dec 02 '21

you think their neglected children are gonna make good slave labor in 18 years

Prison Labor would like a word.

→ More replies

1.3k

u/npcgoat Dec 02 '21

People keep mentioning that women will die because of back alley abortions, but nobody is mentioning the amount of women that will die because they can't afford to go to the hospital.

Childbirth in humans is actually extremely risky. It costs an average of $20,000 without insurance. Those who cannot afford to travel for abortions, likely don't have insurance.

Since they can't afford a hospital, they'll be forced to do risky at home births, which will likely kill both the women and the child in the end.

464

u/Discoqueeny Dec 02 '21

Nah, they will give birth at hospitals as hospitals cannot deny care to someone who is about to give birth.

What they won't have access to is prenatal care. This lack of prenatal care will lead to higher risk pregnancies, complications and more expensive bills. They won't be able to pay these bills so the hospitals will have to eat the cost and therefore the cost for everyone bill go up.

99

u/stuart-little-sucks Dec 03 '21

When my dad was having chest pains he refused to let me call an ambulance because of the bill. We didn’t know it at the time, but he was having a massive heart attack, and that decision nearly cost him his life. (In hindsight, I should’ve called the ambulance anyway.)

Denying care isn’t the issue, the bill that follows is, and many Americans, like my dad, decline medical care in life-threatening situations because they cannot afford to pay.

30

u/Muchado_aboutnothing Dec 03 '21

I think the poster meant that women may avoid going to the hospital to avoid paying for their stay (not necessarily that they would be denied access).

15

u/scarymoose Dec 03 '21

Tell that to Memphis' Baptist East Hospital. They got out of the uninsured OB business by moving their OBGYN specialties to a separate building on the same campus, closed the Emergency Dept for that building, removed the ambulance entrance and called it a 'clinic'.

→ More replies

114

u/coda128371 Dec 02 '21

Sure hospitals providing care isn’t the issue, people getting stuck with the bill is. Plus someone who had an unwanted pregnancy and isn’t planning on exactly… raising the kid (abandonment, smothering, etc.) probably isn’t gonna give birth in a hospital where that child now “exists” in the system. Not saying that’s gonna be commonplace (although it’ll surely happen more often if roe is overturned) but there are stories of teen girls who managed to conceal pregnancies giving birth in their bathrooms.

→ More replies

13

u/Buttcoin42069 Dec 03 '21

hospitals cannot deny care to someone who is about to give birth.

They can't deny care, period.

You might get a bill 6 months later that you have no way of paying, but at the moment we're about to intubate someone and throw them on a ventilator, nobody is doing a credit check and making sure they have a full time job

Realistically, they just won't pay the bill and the shitty consequences for the hospital and newly bankrupt family will manifest themselves at that point

→ More replies
→ More replies

1.2k

u/DextrosKnight Dec 02 '21 Wholesome

Everyone who is anti-abortion should work for a year in our foster care system

431

u/fdtc_skolar Dec 02 '21

I provided foster care in my home for five years and this exactly. Most people don't know how bad some children have it.

101

u/Squigglepig52 Dec 02 '21

I'm adopted. I spent my first 6 months in a foster home. (Oddly, my mom used to act as a temp foster parent in summers to give foster families a break, and I was one of the babies she cared for. Which led to being adopted by my parents.)

My point being - you aren't "that" couple, but, thanks for what you do. It really matters.

492

u/[deleted] Dec 02 '21 Silver Gold

[deleted]

→ More replies
→ More replies
→ More replies

1.1k

u/gmoney-0725 Dec 02 '21

Many women will have unsafe abortions, which could end up killing them.

224

u/SanctuaryMoon Dec 02 '21

Don't forget the pregnant kids who will die because their bodies can't actually handle pregnancy/giving birth.

→ More replies
→ More replies

1.0k

u/netgirljimi Dec 02 '21

I am still just blown away that we're all having to have this conversation.

111

u/Silent_Raider Dec 02 '21

The problem with Roe v Wade is that it’s not a law, it’s a legal precedent. If Congress or the Senate actually cared about the issue, they would have brought forth actual legislation to make it a federal law instead of relying on a decades old court case.

→ More replies
→ More replies

595

u/brycebgood Dec 02 '21

It's going to signal a bunch of states to run other things up to the Supreme Court - like gay marriage. Expect a giant run on reducing the rights of all kinds of people.

→ More replies

196

u/stolenfires Dec 02 '21 edited Dec 03 '21 Silver

A lot of people are talking about crime and the disparate impact on poor women, and they're not wrong. But it's also important, I think, to discuss the likely legal reasoning that will be used and the ramifications thereof.

Roe v. Wade rests on a precedent established by an earlier 1965 case, Griswold v Connecticut. The legal theory of that case is based on the idea that the 14th Amendment confers a right to privacy from government interference. The issue is, the 14th Amendment doesn't actually say "People have a right to privacy," it's all vaguely worded. But ever since Griswold, the courts have held that citizens have an inherent right to privacy, and that extends to things like private medical decisions.

So the court could go long and overturn the entire idea that the 14th Amendment doesn't actually grant anyone any such rights. This sounds far-fetched, but more than a few justices are members of The Federalist Society, a conservative law school quasi-fraternity whose entire reason for being is getting a Supreme Court who will say exactly that. This is because abolishing the right to privacy gets conservatives a whole laundry list of things they have wanted, not just an overturning of Roe v. Wade.

For one, Griswold v Connecticut could be reversed. That case ruled that married people could access contraceptives and information about contraceptives and the government could not interfere. Remember the whole debate when the ACA was being implemented about whether or not an employer should have to pay for an employee's birth control coverage if they objected to contraception? Get ready for Round 2 of that, with an added bonus of 'Should taxpayers in conservative communities be forced to allow contraceptives into their communities?'

Other cases decided on 14A privacy grounds:

  • Loving v Virginia. That ruling allowed interracial couples to marry.
  • Obergfell v Hodges. That ruling allowed same-sex couples to marry.
  • Bostock v Clayton County. That ruling mandated that anti-gender discrimination laws extended to trans people.

There's also a lot of 14A cases that weren't necessarily decided on privacy grounds, but a weakened 14A would be another step to rolling back basically every anti-discrimination, anti-segregation ruling ever. So, should Roe be overturned based on this reinterpretation of the 14th Amendment, which is exactly what at least three justices were explicitly put there to do, a lot of people are going to suffer.

On the state level, things are going to get hairy. Roe explicitly said that the state has an interest in seeing pregnancies carried to term, but that up until the point of fetal viability (the point in time in which the baby can live outside the womb, generally accepted as 24 weeks), the government couldn't interfere in the pregnant person's medical decisions. Should Roe be overturned, individual states can now make whatever rules they want about abortion accessibility. Expect to see a lot of red/blue disparities in access to not only abortion, but everything outlined above.

In the short term: I suspect the courts may kick the whole can down the road due to the timing. The decision won't be made until the summer of 2022, aka, when midterm election campaigns are kicking into high gear. An overturned Roe could energize the Democratic base to elect leaders who promise to write a federal law ensuring abortion protection. Oooorrr it could energize the Republican base to elect leaders who promise to 'protect life.' Either way, it will dramatically shape the 2022 campaign and subsequent elections.

EDIT: TY for the silver but please don't award this post anything that's not a free award. Give your money to local abortion funds that help poor people in your community access what should be baseline medical care which respects their bodily autonomy. If you don't live in a community with such barriers, Planned Parenthood is a great organization that has prevented more abortions than they've performed.

15

u/SitaBird Dec 03 '21

Fantastic comment, thank you!

→ More replies